Landing while sleeping?
#16
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Interesting! Didn't realize there was a rule on this very thing. Out of curiosity what would happen if the lie flat seat were to malfunction and is unable to get into its fully upright locked position (and there were no other seats available)? I'm guessing the FAA would let it "slide" provided the faulty seat is fixed/blocked off?
-James
-James
If it's known in advance, usually the seat is blocked off. Once I saw an NRSA in such a blocked seat.
#17
Join Date: Aug 2008
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The seats are tested and certified (ie. 16G crash test) in a specific configuration (ie. upright). I suppose a manufacturer could go through the expense to design and test the seat in the lie flat configuration and get the FAA to certify it, then it would be acceptable. Ofcourse there are other factors, like if you were in the aisle seat and were blocking the window seat person's egress. Or in non-lie flat seats, the seat needs to be upright so that it does not block the egress for the person behind. The FA should check compliance prior to takeoff and landing. Bottom line, your FA(s) didn't do their job. I'd report the FA or at least the incident to customer service. After all, the FA's always say that their #1 priority is safety.
Now I've had many times where after the FA checks and sits down. Then, the person infront of me decides to recline their seat again. I guess I can't blame the FA for this. It is just the selfishness of the person infront of me putting his comfort above my safety.
Now I've had many times where after the FA checks and sits down. Then, the person infront of me decides to recline their seat again. I guess I can't blame the FA for this. It is just the selfishness of the person infront of me putting his comfort above my safety.
Last edited by eng3; Feb 16, 2019 at 11:06 am
#18
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If you are concerned about this (and I have no real opinion on if you should be or not), since it is a regulatory and safety issue, you could report it to the United CMO.
Last edited by mduell; Feb 16, 2019 at 4:23 pm Reason: botched edit
#19
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Interesting discussion. I checked with a FA on Virgin that lives near me and she said that the FAA allows passengers to be flat (belted) on take off and landing as does Virgin. Maybe because it is not a US plane??
Also quantas is working on putting beds down in the cargo space
Also quantas is working on putting beds down in the cargo space
#21
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I can see some smart aleck asking the FAs about this when they are told to sit upright
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Feb 17, 2019 at 4:39 pm Reason: quote updated to reflect Moderator edit
#22
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 7,875
The seatbelt is quite complicated too. I think it is 50/50 in a serious crash whether or not the seatbelt hurts or harms. In the SFO Asiana incident the girl got thrown out. So she probably should've had her seatbelt on. In the TransAsia crash in the water passengers drowned cause they could't get their seatbelt off.
Maybe there should be a "seatbelt off" requirement if you are going to land in the water.
One size does not fit all.
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Feb 17, 2019 at 4:41 pm Reason: OMNI; OT content removed
#23
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#24
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Interesting! Didn't realize there was a rule on this very thing. Out of curiosity what would happen if the lie flat seat were to malfunction and is unable to get into its fully upright locked position (and there were no other seats available)? I'm guessing the FAA would let it "slide" provided the faulty seat is fixed/blocked off?
-James
-James
I have on occasion been seated in domestic F or Y seats that simply would not stay in the "upright" position. I actually prefer the fully non-reclined position most of the time and get really annoyed at those seats that refuse to stay upright. I once had a FA scold me for not having my seat upright for landing. When I told her that it wouldn't stay upright, she simply shrugged and moved on.
#25
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 7,875
The sun revolves around the earth because it is known the sun revolves around the earth.
The real question is whether something is better or even good, not whether or not people do it that way (or believe in it).
#26
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I quickly scanned the report and it mentions "Most survivors were still in their seats and unbuckled their seat belts by themselves or were assisted by other passengers."
Where did you read that they couldn't get their belts off? Are you thinking of another accident? I'd be interested to read.
The only issue I've ever heard about seatbelts is that passengers have muscle memory to remove seatbelts in a car (from the side by pressing a button) and that is why it is demonstrated in the safety presentation each time to remind passengers.
According to the Rules, that aircraft can never land.
I have on occasion been seated in domestic F or Y seats that simply would not stay in the "upright" position. I actually prefer the fully non-reclined position most of the time and get really annoyed at those seats that refuse to stay upright. I once had a FA scold me for not having my seat upright for landing. When I told her that it wouldn't stay upright, she simply shrugged and moved on.
I have on occasion been seated in domestic F or Y seats that simply would not stay in the "upright" position. I actually prefer the fully non-reclined position most of the time and get really annoyed at those seats that refuse to stay upright. I once had a FA scold me for not having my seat upright for landing. When I told her that it wouldn't stay upright, she simply shrugged and moved on.
If I understand the OP correctly, he is asking about the rules. I think it has been established that the rule is the seat should be upright. That does not address whether it is safer or not, that is a different question. Equipment gets tested and certified in certain configurations. If you do something outside that configuration, all bets are off. That doesnt mean all other configurations are unsafe. It just means it is unsafe to try because no one has tested it.
#27
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 7,875
I remember this accident but don't recall anything about seatbelt problems.
I quickly scanned the report and it mentions "Most survivors were still in their seats and unbuckled their seat belts by themselves or were assisted by other passengers."
Where did you read that they couldn't get their belts off? Are you thinking of another accident? I'd be interested to read.
I quickly scanned the report and it mentions "Most survivors were still in their seats and unbuckled their seat belts by themselves or were assisted by other passengers."
Where did you read that they couldn't get their belts off? Are you thinking of another accident? I'd be interested to read.
But I heard it from people in Taiwan, presumably in Chinese though. I could just find this on wikipedia
"Divers were forced to cut the seat belts of dead passengers, located mostly in the front section, to remove their bodies" but there is no citation.
If I understand the OP correctly, he is asking about the rules. I think it has been established that the rule is the seat should be upright. That does not address whether it is safer or not, that is a different question. Equipment gets tested and certified in certain configurations. If you do something outside that configuration, all bets are off. That doesnt mean all other configurations are unsafe. It just means it is unsafe to try because no one has tested it.
#28
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I was aboard an AA regional flight a couple of months ago where the pilots made no prepare-for-landing announcement, there was no double-ding on final, no cabin announcement live or recorded, in fact the FA was in the aisle picking up trash and gabbing with passengers until I waved at her and said, hey, judging from the view out the window, we're about fifteen seconds from the piano keys. She made a run for the rearward jumpseat and was not quite buckled in when we touched down. On that flight nobody, flight deck or FA, was paying any attention to safety regs at all. It happens.
#29
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If a FA does see someone revert to comfortable positions after doing the walkthrough, how far does his/her responsibility go? Do they just remind the offender and document it if they refuse to comply? Do they have to defer the takeoff the takeoff? How do they handle this in a landing situation when they can't defer it?
I'm thinking of this from a 100% legal CYA perspective.