Window shades up?

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Old Feb 14, 19, 9:58 am
  #106  
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Also, don't rule out claustrophobia, altitude sickness or fear of flying! I've suffered from a subtle version of the 1st & 3rd on and off over the years, and I find relief being in the window seat and Definitely with the shades up! So perhaps we shouldn't jump to conclusions so quickly ;-)
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Old Feb 14, 19, 11:14 am
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Originally Posted by HNLbasedFlyer View Post
Of course it is rude and inconsiderate - and the person doing it knows that. They don't care. Just like talking in a movie, cutting you off in traffic, cutting in line, etc - they don't care.

Just because someone controls the window shade, does not mean they cannot be considerate of others. I sometimes wonder, if they are willing to be so inconsiderate to a cabin full of people - what other types of things do they do in daily life.
It's very rude for isle people to fall asleep so I cannot exit. They don't care. Just like cutting you off in traffic or talking in the movie. I demand those selfish isle people to stay awake and let me out anytime I want.
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Old Feb 14, 19, 11:29 am
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Originally Posted by danielSuper View Post
It's very rude for isle people to fall asleep so I cannot exit. They don't care. Just like cutting you off in traffic or talking in the movie. I demand those selfish isle people to stay awake and let me out anytime I want.
"If you want control of the the window shade, book a window seat."
"If you want unimpeded access to the aisle, book an aisle seat."
Same difference. Same lack of consideration. Same self absorbed me first attitude.
Same deleterious effect on the air travel experience. Carriers, following standard economic practice, have already made flying except in premium cabins pretty damn as unpleasant as possible (to deter those who can afford premium travel from saving money by making the class differentiation so extreme). Passengers messing with one another, just because they can, isn't helpful.
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Old Feb 14, 19, 1:02 pm
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Originally Posted by rickg523 View Post
"If you want control of the the window shade, book a window seat."
"If you want unimpeded access to the aisle, book an aisle seat."
Same difference. Same lack of consideration. Same self absorbed me first attitude.
Same deleterious effect on the air travel experience. Carriers, following standard economic practice, have already made flying except in premium cabins pretty damn as unpleasant as possible (to deter those who can afford premium travel from saving money by making the class differentiation so extreme). Passengers messing with one another, just because they can, isn't helpful.
What you falsely call "me first attitude" should be known as "neutral attitude" and people should not be guilt tripped because they chose a window seat and want to watch icebergs the whole flight. I love icebergs.

Why is some individual's need to watch a movie in total darknness like a bat automatically makes me inconsiderate and I should defend my love of icebergs? I don't see anything philosophically wrong with premise "if you want a guaranteed shade down situation, book a window", it's not selfish, it's neutral. If you want to be like a vampire for 14 hours in the tube, book a window and close it.
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Old Feb 14, 19, 1:49 pm
  #110  
 
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I think part of what confuses me is what actual flight has daylight and is timed such that it is a moral imperative (like some on this thread seem to imply) that everyone needs perfect sleep? Most flights that go through daytime are at best "nap" flights: LHR-SFO, daytime SFO-ICN, etc. You are leaving in your morning and arriving in the evening so it would be weird to sleep for nine hours in between. If you're just snoozing a bit in the middle of a long day, that's what the eye mask is for. I might not want to nap at the same time; maybe I want to spot some icebergs. I will close my shades when taking a nap, and open them if I'm awake and want natural light.

About the only exception I can see here is something like SFO-LHR in midsummer where the sun never quite sets, but still... that's what the eye mask is for. I buy my window seats because I want to look out the window. I don't think that's outrageously selfish.
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Old Feb 14, 19, 2:13 pm
  #111  
 
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In my case it was a red-eye flight where virtually 99% of the passengers are sleeping except for the guy next to me reading a book. Absolutely his right as crazy as I (and others) may think it is. I should have brought my eye mask, my bad.
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Old Feb 14, 19, 6:05 pm
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Originally Posted by findark View Post
I think part of what confuses me is what actual flight has daylight and is timed such that it is a moral imperative (like some on this thread seem to imply) that everyone needs perfect sleep? Most flights that go through daytime are at best "nap" flights: LHR-SFO, daytime SFO-ICN, etc. You are leaving in your morning and arriving in the evening so it would be weird to sleep for nine hours in between. If you're just snoozing a bit in the middle of a long day, that's what the eye mask is for. I might not want to nap at the same time; maybe I want to spot some icebergs. I will close my shades when taking a nap, and open them if I'm awake and want natural light.

About the only exception I can see here is something like SFO-LHR in midsummer where the sun never quite sets, but still... that's what the eye mask is for. I buy my window seats because I want to look out the window. I don't think that's outrageously selfish.
So this goes to a question I posted earlier, which clearly was not too engaging as no one responded. You close the shades in order to sleep so maybe others want the shades closed when they sleep. Or maybe they like shades open. Clearly the shades affect more than the person in the window seat, which is why I don't understand the notion that window seat means you get all of the control. I am not trying to argue but it seems to be that there should be some happy medium. Maybe you should have to keep the shades open the whole time because how is fair that you get closed shades to sleep but others don't? If you were to say that you too will sleep with shades open because, you too, can use an eye mask then you are being consistent.

Also, people often are making connections so what may seem like a daytime flight could be someone's second flight and they are ready to sleep.

I suppose I just take issue with I choose window so I have all the control. That also does not take into account people who do not get to choose seats because cannot afford to. Or families with kids who have to be in the middle bulkhead. Also, a lot of people do not know to bring eye masks.

I am not sure what the happy medium is but there must be one. Not that people will do it but if it was an ideal world....
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Old Feb 14, 19, 6:07 pm
  #113  
 
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Originally Posted by nomad420 View Post
In my case it was a red-eye flight where virtually 99% of the passengers are sleeping except for the guy next to me reading a book. Absolutely his right as crazy as I (and others) may think it is. I should have brought my eye mask, my bad.
Amen! I stopped taking transcon redeyes (into IAD) after having two flights in a row where the ONLY person with the reading light on for the entire flight, in order to read a book, was sitting right next to me! Remarkable coincidence. I didn't want a third-strike-and-out...

P.S. I'm an avid book reader, but I would never keep other people awake on a night flight by reading a book... Oh well.
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Old Feb 14, 19, 6:07 pm
  #114  
 
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Originally Posted by nomad420 View Post
In my case it was a red-eye flight where virtually 99% of the passengers are sleeping except for the guy next to me reading a book. Absolutely his right as crazy as I (and others) may think it is. I should have brought my eye mask, my bad.
Sigh. this is not how the world works. There is no right for me to be treated with basic courtesy by others (hello, please, and thank you), but I am absolutely justified in denouncing those who mistreat me.

Don't confuse "rights" with how respectful and appropriate people should behave.
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Old Feb 14, 19, 8:00 pm
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Originally Posted by danielSuper View Post
It's very rude for isle people to fall asleep so I cannot exit. They don't care. Just like cutting you off in traffic or talking in the movie. I demand those selfish isle people to stay awake and let me out anytime I want.
I don't mind isle people sleeping on the plane. I don't like the mainlanders doing it.
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Old Feb 14, 19, 10:03 pm
  #116  
 
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Originally Posted by AndyPatterson View Post
Amen! I stopped taking transcon redeyes (into IAD) after having two flights in a row where the ONLY person with the reading light on for the entire flight, in order to read a book, was sitting right next to me! Remarkable coincidence. I didn't want a third-strike-and-out...

P.S. I'm an avid book reader, but I would never keep other people awake on a night flight by reading a book... Oh well.
The function of the reading light is specifically to allow someone to read in the dark. (It has no purpose when the window shade is up during the day). Based on that logic, the light should basically never be on or removed from the plane.

At some point, it's just going too far. I'm actually a very light sleeper. I have trouble sleeping with any light, even the light from my alarm clock. When I'm trying to sleep on a plane, I find the seatbelt sign light and no smoking sign lights too bright. Maybe I should ask the captain to turn them off. There is always Galley light leakage even if the curtain is closed. Maybe next time, I should ask them to turn those off too. When people get up to use the LAV, the lav occupied light is also bothersome. I suppose I could request people to leave the door unlocked. Actually, depending where I'm sitting, the light form the Lav itself can be distracting too, so its best if everyone just holds it until I wake up. The seat controls and IFE remote is pretty bright too, not sure how to turn those off. Or I could just do what I usually do and put on an eyeshade.
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Old Feb 14, 19, 10:13 pm
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Originally Posted by daisyatl View Post
So this goes to a question I posted earlier, which clearly was not too engaging as no one responded. You close the shades in order to sleep so maybe others want the shades closed when they sleep. Or maybe they like shades open. Clearly the shades affect more than the person in the window seat, which is why I don't understand the notion that window seat means you get all of the control. I am not trying to argue but it seems to be that there should be some happy medium. Maybe you should have to keep the shades open the whole time because how is fair that you get closed shades to sleep but others don't? If you were to say that you too will sleep with shades open because, you too, can use an eye mask then you are being consistent.

Also, people often are making connections so what may seem like a daytime flight could be someone's second flight and they are ready to sleep.

I suppose I just take issue with I choose window so I have all the control. That also does not take into account people who do not get to choose seats because cannot afford to. Or families with kids who have to be in the middle bulkhead. Also, a lot of people do not know to bring eye masks.

I am not sure what the happy medium is but there must be one. Not that people will do it but if it was an ideal world....
When I sit at the window (as usual), I still recognise that the light I let in affects others. If I want to look out, I open the shade, but if I'm not actively looking out or using the light, I don't.

So, I do think it's a form of oblivious self absorption, although not exactly selfishness, to blithely leave the window shade open when not partaking of the outside. But, conversely, I think it is selfishness to feel that a window-seated passenger should close the window only because someone somewhere else wants to sleep but hasn't an eyemask for whatever reason.

All of this falls under the conception of what is a public space. Do you affect others with your actions? Yes. How do you balance your own needs and desires against those effects? Almost any answer seems fair if it is made with consideration.
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Old Feb 14, 19, 10:28 pm
  #118  
 
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Originally Posted by daisyatl View Post
...I am not sure what the happy medium is but there must be one. Not that people will do it but if it was an ideal world....
There isnt. Lets say you can poll all the passengers. I'd be willing to bet that you will almost never get all to give the same answer. Some will want it closed, open, or not care. Therefore, you will never be able to please everyone. You could go with the majority, but then potentially up to approx half would be unhappy.
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Old Feb 14, 19, 10:31 pm
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It would appear that blue light found in many screens and some lamps suppresses melatonin production. Thatís not altogether good news for the entertainment built into seatbacks.
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Old Feb 15, 19, 2:34 am
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I may be slightly biased because my first maybe 10-15 long haul flights were on Australian airlines (QF and VA) and I’ve grown accustomed to the routine they mandate. Flights were always dark outside at takeoff. During the first meal, all shades were requested to be down (so once people fell asleep, there was no leakage of light when the sun rose). Same in opposite direction, even though local time was approx 2pm. Shades down so no leakage later in the flight. Shades were then raised at second meal (breakfast) for everyone. I never questioned this, and now I like all shades down for any flight over 8 hours even though I always sit at the window. Just my two cents.
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