Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Airlines and Mileage Programs > United Airlines | MileagePlus
Reload this Page >

United's Basic Economy - Discussion, Q&A, ... {Archive}

Old Feb 9, 2019, 5:12 pm
FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides
Last edit by: WineCountryUA
This is an archive thread -- the active thread is United's Basic Economy - Discussion, Q&A, ...

Important Note: these fares became available 21 Feb 2017 for MSP for travel beginning 18 Apr 2017. More markets were added 19 April 2017 for travel starting 9 May 2017.

Related thread: Basic Economy Airport and Plane Experiences (First or Second Hand)

If you booked before the dates above, you did not have a BE fare. If purchased on united.com you will see a warning like:


4. MileagePlus members will earn full Premier qualifying dollars, 50% Premier qualifying miles and 0.5 Premier qualifying segments for each flight, as well as lifetime miles and toward the four-segment minimum.



Link to UA's description of how these fares will work: Basic Economy.

Here are the key facts:
  • No seat assignments until check-in. Seats will be assigned by the system and cannot be changed.
    *NEW* When purchasing a Basic Economy ticket, you will not receive a complimentary seat assignment but may be able to purchase advance seat assignments during booking and up until check-in opens. If you dont purchase an advance seat assignment, your seat will be automatically assigned to you prior to boarding, and you won't be able to change your seat once it's been assigned.
  • No guarantee of adjacent seats with companions
  • No voluntary ticket changes after 24 hour purchase period
  • Carry on limited to 1 personal item unless the customer is a MP Premier member, primary cardmember of a qualifying MileagePlus credit card, or Star Alliance *G
  • Customers ineligible for carry-on who bring one to the gate will be charged a $25 convenience fee to gate-check in addition to standard baggage fees (source: @united twitter)
  • Customers will not be eligible for Economy Plus or premium cabin upgrades. This includes all forms of upgrades (CPU,supported or purchased). Likewise for E+ access (elite or purchased).
  • Customers will board in the last boarding group (currently Group 5) unless the customer is a MP Premier member, primary cardmember of a qualifying MileagePlus credit card, or Star Alliance *G
  • Companions on same PNR will have same boarding group and carryon if one on the PNR has a waiver
  • No combinability with regular economy fares or partner carriers. Interline travel is not permitted.
  • Tickets will earn RDMs (based on fare and status), PQMs (50% of distance), PQSs (0.5), PQDs, in addition it will count for minimum 4 segment and lifetime miles (New as of Dec 2018)
  • Basic Economy tickets will use booking code 'N'
  • Online check-in only with paid checked bag, otherwise need to see a United representative to verify the onboard bag allowance and receive a boarding pass.
In air, passengers will receive the same standard economy inflight amenities including United Economy dining options, inflight entertainment, United Wi-Fi (availability depending on the flight)

related threads
New UA/*A TATL -LGT Economy fare - no free first bag, no changes/upgrades allowed

Benefit impact of restricted economy fares on UA Elites (Basic Econ, -LGT, Light Econ

Pre-announcement speculation thread (now closed) New "Budget Economy" fares
Print Wikipost

United's Basic Economy - Discussion, Q&A, ... {Archive}

Old Jul 5, 2017, 4:00 pm
  #2071  
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 685
Originally Posted by Kacee
Not sure whether to call this "good news" or just "less bad news"

But certainly welcome.

Note I see BE being sold down to a W on SFO-SAN.
Yes, unlike the report, I think that there is an algorithm that determines when to stop selling BE. However, it should be noted that any flight with one seat left is not selling BE, at least as far as I can see, which is a reversal.
NikoLGA is offline  
Old Jul 5, 2017, 4:23 pm
  #2072  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: MSP
Programs: DL PM, UA Gold, WN, Global Entry; +others wherever miles/points are found
Posts: 14,325
Originally Posted by Kacee
Not sure whether to call this "good news" or just "less bad news"

But certainly welcome.

Note I see BE being sold down to a W on SFO-SAN.
Notably (on SFO/SAN anyway) the higher fares were dropped back to BE levels, and BE eliminated. (i.e. WAA4AKEN fell $20 to match the old WAA4AKBN).
findark is online now  
Old Jul 5, 2017, 4:51 pm
  #2073  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: A menace to everything in the sky. Yes. Even birds.
Programs: Eh+ Rapid Rolleyes
Posts: 14,519
Looks like they're just zero'ing out the N fares on certain routes instead of refiling fares at this point.

The cynic in me says they ran Q3 numbers and saw a sizable attrition in high-rev fares being purchased (I know in the organization I work for when we eliminated BE fares from our search query UA fares instantly dropped to the bottom of the search matrix).

Given the timing at EOQ I'm sensing this BE for all experiment was an unmitigated failure and they're dealing with some pretty big business consequences. I hope I'm right and I hope Kirby gets knocked down a peg or 7 in the customer are dumb, let's screw them hard approach.

I've violated two cardinal investing rules today because of this:
  • I sold my UA long positions mainly on emotion for the disdain of the way they handled BE fares (I have some data to back me up on the corporate booking attrition, and I've been holding for a year and have realized a nice return)
  • I'm now shorting the stock (as an investment rule I never bet on people's failure).

Let's see how this plays out in the Q2 earnings call. My .02 is they use the word "recalibrate" a dozen times in reference to BE.
belynch is offline  
Old Jul 5, 2017, 4:53 pm
  #2074  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: PSM
Posts: 69,232
Originally Posted by NikoGoutakolis
Yes, unlike the report, I think that there is an algorithm that determines when to stop selling BE. However, it should be noted that any flight with one seat left is not selling BE, at least as far as I can see, which is a reversal.
It is not an algorithm so much as a change in the way fares are published in many markets. For SAN-SFO mentioned above UA used to have BE fares filed up to the H bucket. Now S is the most expensive bucket where they will sell. In many cases there are filed BE fares in the higher buckets but only for round-trip fares and priced at 2x the non-BE o/w fare so the BE fare will never be sold. In the EWR-LAX market that TPG focused on it is a very similar situation.



In ORD-LGA, however, BE fares are still for sale all the way up the alphabet. It is a selective retreat for United from the original Basic Economy plan for now.


Link is to my additional analysis of the data.
sbm12 is offline  
Old Jul 5, 2017, 10:55 pm
  #2075  
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: dark side of the moon
Programs: papa card, UA 1K
Posts: 707
The changes in BE are the news of the day.....

It will be interesting to see how much BE is rolled back (routes / fare class).

Currently you only have to look for a min to find silly BE pricing and availability.

Just one example attached
Attached Images  
ermintrude is offline  
Old Jul 6, 2017, 2:20 am
  #2076  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Programs: 6 year GS, now 2MM Jeff-ugee, *wood LTPlt, SkyPeso PLT
Posts: 6,526
Originally Posted by belynch
Looks like they're just zero'ing out the N fares on certain routes instead of refiling fares at this point.

The cynic in me says they ran Q3 numbers and saw a sizable attrition in high-rev fares being purchased (I know in the organization I work for when we eliminated BE fares from our search query UA fares instantly dropped to the bottom of the search matrix).

Given the timing at EOQ I'm sensing this BE for all experiment was an unmitigated failure and they're dealing with some pretty big business consequences. I hope I'm right and I hope Kirby gets knocked down a peg or 7 in the customer are dumb, let's screw them hard approach.
I have loudly made the case that this was a very bad business decission, because it was in effect a tax on those with UA status (who now had to pay more to avoid a BE fare) and they were most likely to realize the scam UA was running, and if they had options, consider them. Seth's post (below yours) links to his article where he admits he bought a WN fare, to in part avoid BE. I think his reaction is common enough, especially on highly competitive routes, that United would be able to detect a book away combined with complaints, if they looked for one. evidently they found it.

I did find it interesting though that on SFO-SEA, which is highly competitive, UA is still trying to sell BE's in higher fare brackets. I have to go to SEA on this Friday, everyone is $216 (o/w), but UA is a BE, DL/AS/VX are regular Y. And on the few flights that are $308, UA is also a BE, DL/AS are regular Y. United is simply not competitive at this point, and anyone with options really ought to question why they are putting up with being ripped off regarding using their status on every flight on UA vs flying a real airline with better product and service
spin88 is offline  
Old Jul 6, 2017, 4:21 am
  #2077  
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 685
Regardless, it is good to see that customer opposition is winning out a little bit these days.

American customers complained about the seat pitch going from 31” to 29”, and American compromised at 30”.

This seems to be a similar situation, UA flyers were so infuriated with the new BE, they’ve limited the product somewhat.
NikoLGA is offline  
Old Jul 6, 2017, 7:30 am
  #2078  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: A menace to everything in the sky. Yes. Even birds.
Programs: Eh+ Rapid Rolleyes
Posts: 14,519
Originally Posted by NikoGoutakolis
Regardless, it is good to see that customer opposition is winning out a little bit these days.
They only pay attention (or care) when bookings/revenue suffer. I never wrote a letter/complained about BE, I just booked away. My thesis is enough others passively digested the change, realized it wasn't in their best interest to book on UA (or corporate rules made it harder to do it) and off they went to other carriers.

Hence my point yesterday about hoping Kirby gets knocked down a peg with this move. Customers can, and do, push back.
belynch is offline  
Old Jul 6, 2017, 10:58 am
  #2079  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Programs: 6 year GS, now 2MM Jeff-ugee, *wood LTPlt, SkyPeso PLT
Posts: 6,526
Originally Posted by belynch
They only pay attention (or care) when bookings/revenue suffer. I never wrote a letter/complained about BE, I just booked away. My thesis is enough others passively digested the change, realized it wasn't in their best interest to book on UA (or corporate rules made it harder to do it) and off they went to other carriers.

Hence my point yesterday about hoping Kirby gets knocked down a peg with this move. Customers can, and do, push back.
Well BE was the big "1 billion in extra revenue" idea that United was pushing.
While many people on this thread bought in, I assumed it would take a few quarters for it to shake out as UA lost more valuable traffic. It appears though that we are beginning to see the results of BE + a series of CS failures (doa, etc) further damaging UA's reputation + "enhanced" (aka lowered) economy hard product such as 3-4-3 on the 77W, in worse numbers.

Delta is now projecting "2Q passenger unit revenue increased ~2.5%, as Deltas commercial initiatives and an improving revenue environment offset 0.5 points of unit revenue pressure from the April storm disruption."

United has not posted an update since June's Traffic report, when they said "The company continues to expect second-quarter 2017 consolidated passenger unit revenue to be up 1.0 to 3.0 percent compared to the second quarter of 2016. However, the Pacific region is experiencing incremental weakness due to unfavorable supply and demand dynamics in China and Hong Kong."

It will be interesting if UA adjusts this (and we should know in the next few days), but the guidance (Delta's is up, UA is still suggesting the midpoint) is suggesting Delta will yet again beat United in revenue growth, which will IMHO suggest that BE has not helped, and may have hurt United's bottom line. Such a result would be very very noteworthy, as I (and I assume others) would have expected a quarterly bump due to the BE fare hike under the "you can always fool someone once" principle that UA's management seems to count on.
spin88 is offline  
Old Jul 7, 2017, 1:45 am
  #2080  
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 22
Originally Posted by JayhawkCO
Just booked a BE fare from DEN-MCI. I'm a credit card holder, so I can just check my bag. I'm flying alone, so don't really care where I sit. I don't have status anymore, so wasn't eligible for E+ anyway. It's a 2-2 configuration, so no middle seat. And I'm not intending on getting close to status this year nor MM ever. Any reason I should have shelled out the extra $40?

Chris
No reasons to fly them whether you shell out $40 or not, unless you are interested in encouraging them to go further down this road=)

What do you think they are more likely to do after their grand $1B Basic Economy campaign? Take away something from delta and southwest flyers to squeeze out their next $1B of growth? Or charge UA CC holders for their checked bag and backpack to make up for the declining revenue?
smith16john is offline  
Old Jul 8, 2017, 12:26 am
  #2081  
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Programs: UA 1K, Marriott Plat, Avis First, Hertz PC
Posts: 575
Since BE fares can't be changed or cancelled, what happens if I book another seat on the flight to avoid the BE restrictions?

A corporate TA booked a seat for me in BE an I am planning to buy my own seat on the flight, but cannot cancel the BE reservation. Anyone tried this before? UA agent told me I can't cancel it, so I don't know how to give the BE inventory back to UA.

I imagine this will happen a bit as it is the only way to "change" a BE ticket to a regular Y ticket, throw it away and buy another one. I'm surprised UA doesn't provide a mechanism to do this.
johnden is offline  
Old Jul 8, 2017, 5:38 am
  #2082  
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Toronto, ON
Programs: US Air, Flying Blue, United, Air Canada, Aeromexico
Posts: 431
Basic Economy Fare

I tried to book a basic economy fare for BUF to EWR but when entering my Canadian address I was moved to regular economy.
Is it a glitch in the United booking portal or Basic Economy is just for US residents ?
It won't even let me complete the booking in USD. All gets converted to CAD.
Also I saw my PayPal payment was rejected (PayPal being linked to my Canadian credit card).
Can anyone explain please?
Thanks
ticu is offline  
Old Jul 8, 2017, 6:22 am
  #2083  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,080
Originally Posted by johnden
Since BE fares can't be changed or cancelled, what happens if I book another seat on the flight to avoid the BE restrictions?

A corporate TA booked a seat for me in BE an I am planning to buy my own seat on the flight, but cannot cancel the BE reservation. Anyone tried this before? UA agent told me I can't cancel it, so I don't know how to give the BE inventory back to UA.

I imagine this will happen a bit as it is the only way to "change" a BE ticket to a regular Y ticket, throw it away and buy another one. I'm surprised UA doesn't provide a mechanism to do this.
i don't see how they can prevent anyone from cancelling a flight. Cancelling should be more preferable than just no showing. You already know you won't be refunded. Is there no way to go online and cancel?
Kensterfly is offline  
Old Jul 8, 2017, 6:32 am
  #2084  
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: YYZ
Programs: UA1K MM, JL JMB SAPPHIRE, Marriott Titanium/LTP, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 1,267
Yes United.com won't throw BE for Canadian billing address. I don't have any experience regarding your second question, but I only have one US creditcard on my UA profile and I am able to pay for ticket in both CAD and USD.
gokeeper is offline  
Old Jul 8, 2017, 7:24 am
  #2085  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AS 75K; UA 1MM; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott LTP; Hilton Diamond (Aspire)
Posts: 56,300
Originally Posted by johnden
UA agent told me I can't cancel it, so I don't know how to give the BE inventory back to UA.
You can cancel it. You just can't change it or reuse the flight credit.

The fact that it's a TA reservation may be complicating the process.
Kacee is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.