Options to change return of a super-cheap BE Int'l fare, after flying outbound leg?
#1
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Options to change return of a super-cheap BE Int'l fare, after flying outbound leg?
Last August, a relative bought a crazy Basic Economy Fare of $279 RT France to SFO on LH and UA with perfect connections. No kidding. $127 fare and $151 taxes. Ha!
She just flew to SFO. We are getting her a LH J seat on UA miles for a later return.
We don't mid throwing away half a $279 ticket, but I wonder if United would throw us a bone for canceling rather than no-showing. That way they'd have one more seat to sell. I'm thinking maybe a waived change fee on the J ticket if a better J option becomes available?
Mods, feel free to merge this if there's an existing thread with replies that answer my question.
She just flew to SFO. We are getting her a LH J seat on UA miles for a later return.
We don't mid throwing away half a $279 ticket, but I wonder if United would throw us a bone for canceling rather than no-showing. That way they'd have one more seat to sell. I'm thinking maybe a waived change fee on the J ticket if a better J option becomes available?
Mods, feel free to merge this if there's an existing thread with replies that answer my question.
#2
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#3
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Last August, a relative bought a crazy Basic Economy Fare of $279 RT France to SFO on LH and UA with perfect connections. No kidding. $127 fare and $151 taxes. Ha!
She just flew to SFO. We are getting her a LH J seat on UA miles for a later return.
We don't mid throwing away half a $279 ticket, but I wonder if United would throw us a bone for canceling rather than no-showing. That way they'd have one more seat to sell. I'm thinking maybe a waived change fee on the J ticket if a better J option becomes available?
She just flew to SFO. We are getting her a LH J seat on UA miles for a later return.
We don't mid throwing away half a $279 ticket, but I wonder if United would throw us a bone for canceling rather than no-showing. That way they'd have one more seat to sell. I'm thinking maybe a waived change fee on the J ticket if a better J option becomes available?
UA doesn't care if you cancel. If you don't check-in, your reservation will be cancelled regardless. You get no props for cancelling in advance. UA assumes some percentage of pax won't show up. That's how flights get oversold, when they estimate wrong.
The right question is whether you're going to get in trouble if UA figures out you're throw-away ticketing. Which you're making pretty easy for them using UA miles in lieu of the discarded return.
#4
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Furthermore, UA knows that many Basic Economy passengers decide to change return dates and buy new tickets. That has never been considered throwaway ticketing as far as I know.
#5
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Anyway, long story short, it doesn't matter. The answer to your original question is that UA is not going to waive any fees or do you any other favor due to cancelling the return flight in advance. In fact, the only reason to cancel early would be if the two return flights are on the same day or otherwise impossible to fly -- if UA detects impossible bookings, it reserves the right to cancel one of them. Otherwise, wait and see if you get a lucky; perhaps a schedule change or a delay will allow for a refund.
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#8
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Throwaway costs the airline money when you fly only one way and don't pay the one-way fare. If you actually fly both directions the airline has no reasonable expectation that you would have bought two overpriced one-way fares rather a round-trip fare. I believe that if you fly the same airline both ways they have made their normal amount of money from you. (Domestically this would be no issue because round trip fare is the sum of one-way fares. It's only flights beyond the USA that a one-way can cost more than a round trip.)
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The intent until she arrived was to fly the return. Then we looked at J award availability and decided to splurge.
Throwaway costs the airline money when you fly only one way and don't pay the one-way fare. If you actually fly both directions the airline has no reasonable expectation that you would have bought two overpriced one-way fares rather a round-trip fare. I believe that if you fly the same airline both ways they have made their normal amount of money from you. (Domestically this would be no issue because round trip fare is the sum of one-way fares. It's only flights beyond the USA that a one-way can cost more than a round trip.)
Throwaway costs the airline money when you fly only one way and don't pay the one-way fare. If you actually fly both directions the airline has no reasonable expectation that you would have bought two overpriced one-way fares rather a round-trip fare. I believe that if you fly the same airline both ways they have made their normal amount of money from you. (Domestically this would be no issue because round trip fare is the sum of one-way fares. It's only flights beyond the USA that a one-way can cost more than a round trip.)
It's not a moral issue. But it's a very clear violation of the CoC. All attempts at rationalization notwithstanding.
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I'm disappointed but not surprised that United doesn't give us any reason other than courtesy to cancel a Basic Economy trip we won't use: If United gave any incentive someone would figure out how game it.
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It doesn't matter to UA if she cancels in advance. Their algorithm has already factored in no-shows in setting inventory and selling seats. Further, there will be a standby waitlist expressly in anticipation of no-shows, which she will become when she fails to meet the check-in cut-off. UA benefits not at all from an advance cancel, and needs provide no incentive. And the notion that you should receive some sort of free perk for violating the CoC is just plain bizarre.
#12
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I don't see how it's a violation of the CoC to:
(1) buy a discounted round-trip ticket
(2) after arriving at your destination, decide to change your travel plans
(3) attempt to change your ticket, but find that it's not changeable
(4) purchase a one-way business class ticket home on the same carrier
Maybe OP owes UA the fare differential between what they bought (r/t) and what they flew (o/w). Maybe. But I don't see how OP violated the CoC unless they are lying here and always intended to throw away the return. I have no reason to believe OP is lying, since changing one's travel plans is something that happens frequently.
You cannot hold that buying a no-changes ticket legally requires you to board that flight. If it's "use it or lose it", there has to be a (legal) way to "lose it".
I agree 100% the OP has little to gain from contacting UA and should probably just no-show for the flight (or hope it gets cancelled/delayed). But I don't understand all of this "you're violating the CoC by changing your plans!" nonsense.
(1) buy a discounted round-trip ticket
(2) after arriving at your destination, decide to change your travel plans
(3) attempt to change your ticket, but find that it's not changeable
(4) purchase a one-way business class ticket home on the same carrier
Maybe OP owes UA the fare differential between what they bought (r/t) and what they flew (o/w). Maybe. But I don't see how OP violated the CoC unless they are lying here and always intended to throw away the return. I have no reason to believe OP is lying, since changing one's travel plans is something that happens frequently.
You cannot hold that buying a no-changes ticket legally requires you to board that flight. If it's "use it or lose it", there has to be a (legal) way to "lose it".
I agree 100% the OP has little to gain from contacting UA and should probably just no-show for the flight (or hope it gets cancelled/delayed). But I don't understand all of this "you're violating the CoC by changing your plans!" nonsense.
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So, yes, I think UA has backed themselves into a bit of a corner here. With a regular penalty fare, it's easy to make the argument that it's a CoC violation to throw away the return if plans change -- UA's expectation is that you pay the change fee and any necessary fare difference. But on a fare that disallows changes, I'm not sure what somebody is supposed to do. I think UA would have a difficult time enforcing throwaway ticketing rules on BE tickets, unless they could show that the passenger never intended to fly as ticketed. (For example, if a passenger purchased LAX-LHR-LAX at 3 PM, and then purchased a separate LHR-LAX reservation at 3:30 PM, UA probably has a case).
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Feb 7, 2019 at 10:43 am Reason: split post
#14
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I think UA would have a difficult time enforcing throwaway ticketing rules on BE tickets, unless they could show that the passenger never intended to fly as ticketed. (For example, if a passenger purchased LAX-LHR-LAX at 3 PM, and then purchased a separate LHR-LAX reservation at 3:30 PM, UA probably has a case).
I'm fairly confident that UA would take the position it's a CoC violation regardless. Whether they would take action is a different question.
Mods may want to move this discussion, as I'm afraid we've hijacked the thread.
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Moderator note
These posts were originally in our 2019, "Ask a Simple Question..." Thread. The protocol of that thread is that one or two answers to a basic question should suffice. Occasionally, a more complex question arises, such as this one started by nsx, which deserves the robust and extended discussion it's received. Hence, we've moved this to its separate thread so that the discussion can continue. Thanks, Ocn Vw 1K, Co-Moderator.