corporate travel policies for discounted first class
Jan 17, 2019, 12:14 pm
#31
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But it makes me wonder how common are corporate travel policies that require coach only for domestic travel, but allow high coach fares (full Y, etc.)? In other words, a policy that would, say, allow someone to pay $900 to fly from BOS to SAN in Y but prohibit the same person from paying, say, $550 to be more comfortable in first class, by planning in advance (or being selective about what flight one takes) and buying a Z fare? Is that typical of corporate travel policies?
Just for fun I looked at costs for a trip to Montreal that I'm planning in September. The best non-refundable economy fare is currently US$296. The best Economy (flexible) fare is no less than $1565, and that books into O. I could book a mixed cabin (K/P outbound, Z/V return) for $712.
I'll have to ask when the time comes what the company would prefer.
Jan 17, 2019, 1:44 pm
#32
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There are two issues here.
Some companies forbid F/J simply as a matter of principle. Cost is a factor, but even when F/J is a relatively cheap or even negative delta, they won't permit it.
Others require a flexible ticket. There are people who do not have fixed travel and thus may well make 3-4 changes across a 7-10 day multi-city trip. They also have significant accounting issues in dealing with billing travel to a client and then dealing with travel credit. Thus, if they pay for flexible Y, the question is not whether one could fly in F/J for less, but whether one can fly in F/J on the same terms.
I am amazed at the number of companies who persist in small dollar pettiness. It is an eye-opener as someone who has been the beneficiary of flexible travel policies which focus on reasonableness rather than bean-counting.
Some companies forbid F/J simply as a matter of principle. Cost is a factor, but even when F/J is a relatively cheap or even negative delta, they won't permit it.
Others require a flexible ticket. There are people who do not have fixed travel and thus may well make 3-4 changes across a 7-10 day multi-city trip. They also have significant accounting issues in dealing with billing travel to a client and then dealing with travel credit. Thus, if they pay for flexible Y, the question is not whether one could fly in F/J for less, but whether one can fly in F/J on the same terms.
I am amazed at the number of companies who persist in small dollar pettiness. It is an eye-opener as someone who has been the beneficiary of flexible travel policies which focus on reasonableness rather than bean-counting.
I'm sure that with the outrageous ruleset at a large company, there are plenty of us on FT who know exactly how to input a search into Concur to get that extremely high Y fare to be "LCLF", just for the PQD or sheer spite factor.
Jan 17, 2019, 3:18 pm
#33
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My company (software industry, part of a large global industrial conglomerate) policy is that business is allowed when you are *in the air* for more than 11 hours. PDX-YVR-LHR is just under, but PDX-SFO-MUC is fine. You still need to get EVP approval and have room in your budget -- so I do book some $6-8K business trips but feel guilty since that also represents about 5% of the entire travel budget for my whole team of 10 for the year. We recently acquired a company that has a co-pay policy -- $500 each way to fly business over coach. That seems like a good way to let employees decide how to spend their and the company money, until somebody told me that she spent $10K out of pocket (since she traveled a lot) and all of a sudden my travel policy seems fairer.
Jan 17, 2019, 3:41 pm
#34
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No need to feel guilty. It isn't as though your team's travel budget is set by law. Your company either needsto budget for the travel it necessarily requires or it should not have you do the trip.
Jan 17, 2019, 3:55 pm
#35
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Jan 17, 2019, 3:56 pm
#36
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It's not all that poorly known. I certainly wish more companies would adopt something like that, but the usual refrain I hear is that they don't want to invest in the infrastructure necessary to do it.
Jan 17, 2019, 7:27 pm
#37
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I work at a large tech company and the rules can vary between business units — and even in the same business unit, rules might differ depending on manager.
The typical rule is that if you do 4 or more international trips a year you can fly J (and if you know that’s going to happen you can start booking that way). But certain teams have more strict or leniant policies.
My team is lucky in that any flight over 7 hours can be business (total flight time). I’ve heard of people booking a higher class at the corporate rate and then only expensing the Y fare - but I’ve never done that myself. We’re supposed to use Concur for all travel, but in a pinch we can book direct or through another portal — but that’s understandable discouraged.
I’ve worked for the “you can’t book in J even if it is cheaper than Y” places before tho. It’s so silly.
The typical rule is that if you do 4 or more international trips a year you can fly J (and if you know that’s going to happen you can start booking that way). But certain teams have more strict or leniant policies.
My team is lucky in that any flight over 7 hours can be business (total flight time). I’ve heard of people booking a higher class at the corporate rate and then only expensing the Y fare - but I’ve never done that myself. We’re supposed to use Concur for all travel, but in a pinch we can book direct or through another portal — but that’s understandable discouraged.
I’ve worked for the “you can’t book in J even if it is cheaper than Y” places before tho. It’s so silly.
Jan 17, 2019, 7:43 pm
#38
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,116
Our policy is Y (not even e+) on all domestics under 4.5hrs. Transcons can be booked in e+. We can book direct flight over 1 stop as long as it’s under the max domestic fare of the year and there isn’t a 1 stop that is more than 50% cheaper
Internallionally or “any flight over 9hrs or that leaves North America” the first trio of the year has to be in upgradable Y. Directors and above on futures trips can book into J.
the year is a calendar year. We have had situations where someone’s first trip of the year one year is early December but then they need to travel in Jan
Internallionally or “any flight over 9hrs or that leaves North America” the first trio of the year has to be in upgradable Y. Directors and above on futures trips can book into J.
the year is a calendar year. We have had situations where someone’s first trip of the year one year is early December but then they need to travel in Jan
Jan 17, 2019, 9:34 pm
#39
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It really bothers me when I get to read about other's travel policies and how generous they are with their policies. I envy your policies. I think it's far from the norm though. J travel is getting very hard to find. Even if J or PE is cheaper then Y, it's Y. And by "Y" I mean the lowest fare that your online travel agency site gives you.
Rules are rules and you can't be raising attention and asking for exceptions. That's what was drilled into me.
OP - any details what industry/location you are in?
Rules are rules and you can't be raising attention and asking for exceptions. That's what was drilled into me.
OP - any details what industry/location you are in?
Jan 18, 2019, 12:20 am
#40
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As a consultant, my travel is often dictated by my client's travel policies for their consultants.
My previous large consulting firm had a no-purchase-of-first-class for domestic or international, regardless of length.
Fortunately, some clients had policies specifying that consultants should fly business for trips over 6 hours. These folks flew their employees in business, and I don't think they wanted to give anyone the the thought of, "Hey, these consultants are surviving in coach, maybe we should make our employees fly coach too".
My previous company would freak out each time I submitted the $9k and $10k IAH-GIG airfares for reimbursement. I took a team of four to Rio for three days on a cool $38k in airfare, and our travel/accounting folks were dying. They were reimbursing employees for travel immediately while waiting for a month or two to get paid by the client. It got to the point where I just attached the client's travel policy to my expenses. A big company can float that kind of money, but not all small businesses are sitting on $50,000 they can float to cover travel expenses for a couple of months while waiting for the client to pay.
Now that I have my own company, I fly what my clients request that I fly, and if I think I'm in a good bargaining position, I try to negotiate into the original contract if I don't like their policies.
I hate spending other people's money, and my clients will laugh at me as I'm checking to see if four or six Uber rides is cheaper than just renting a car or when i explain why the hotel rates were so crazy at the last minute. They point out that the $100 I saved or spent probably doesn't matter a whole lot in the grand scheme of a $100,000+ project. However, I think it also helps them understand that I'm playing it straight with my overall costing and generally looking out for their best interest (man, that was me tooting my own horn about how great I am - I suck).
My previous large consulting firm had a no-purchase-of-first-class for domestic or international, regardless of length.
Fortunately, some clients had policies specifying that consultants should fly business for trips over 6 hours. These folks flew their employees in business, and I don't think they wanted to give anyone the the thought of, "Hey, these consultants are surviving in coach, maybe we should make our employees fly coach too".
My previous company would freak out each time I submitted the $9k and $10k IAH-GIG airfares for reimbursement. I took a team of four to Rio for three days on a cool $38k in airfare, and our travel/accounting folks were dying. They were reimbursing employees for travel immediately while waiting for a month or two to get paid by the client. It got to the point where I just attached the client's travel policy to my expenses. A big company can float that kind of money, but not all small businesses are sitting on $50,000 they can float to cover travel expenses for a couple of months while waiting for the client to pay.
Now that I have my own company, I fly what my clients request that I fly, and if I think I'm in a good bargaining position, I try to negotiate into the original contract if I don't like their policies.
I hate spending other people's money, and my clients will laugh at me as I'm checking to see if four or six Uber rides is cheaper than just renting a car or when i explain why the hotel rates were so crazy at the last minute. They point out that the $100 I saved or spent probably doesn't matter a whole lot in the grand scheme of a $100,000+ project. However, I think it also helps them understand that I'm playing it straight with my overall costing and generally looking out for their best interest (man, that was me tooting my own horn about how great I am - I suck).
Last edited by HoustonConsultant; Jan 18, 2019 at 12:26 am
Jan 18, 2019, 10:00 am
#41
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I travel the most of anyone at a firm where everyone travels a decent amount. I made it clear that I'm booking discount F every time and they agreed as long as it doesn't exceed $100K/year, which I would just curtail some international travel to avoid if I came close.
Jan 18, 2019, 11:12 am
#42
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$100k was more then my entire teams travel budget for the entire year. Actually that was probably 2-3 years worth of travel. It's also staggering to me that you can, on a whim, "curtail some international travel to avoid it" - isn't the whole purpose that's its a business necessity you travel? I'm happy you get to do that - I think that's awesome - but there are so many places that would just laugh you out of the building. If you can just cut out some travel "because" - it doesn't sound like it's really needed and the company is just throwing away money.
(Again - I think it's great you're in that position).
Jan 18, 2019, 1:28 pm
#43
Join Date: Dec 2018
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I work at a large professional services firm. The policy is Y unless flight is greater than 7 hours. I know that some people are still forced to book into Y in instances where J would be allowed by the policy. I haven't encountered that, but if I ever did, I would just push the policy to the practice leader.
I typically just pay to upgrade myself out of pocket. Sometimes it's humorous to me that an upgrade is usually around 300 round trip, (less than 1 hour at my standard charge rate for a client) but if tried to run through the expense, it would be denied.
I feel like first class travel should be standard when you are sitting in a windowless conference room the size of a prison cell and billing out 10-12 hours a day...
I typically just pay to upgrade myself out of pocket. Sometimes it's humorous to me that an upgrade is usually around 300 round trip, (less than 1 hour at my standard charge rate for a client) but if tried to run through the expense, it would be denied.
I feel like first class travel should be standard when you are sitting in a windowless conference room the size of a prison cell and billing out 10-12 hours a day...
Jan 19, 2019, 5:33 am
#44
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 113
I work at a large tech company and the rules can vary between business units — and even in the same business unit, rules might differ depending on manager.
The typical rule is that if you do 4 or more international trips a year you can fly J (and if you know that’s going to happen you can start booking that way). But certain teams have more strict or leniant policies.
My team is lucky in that any flight over 7 hours can be business (total flight time). I’ve heard of people booking a higher class at the corporate rate and then only expensing the Y fare - but I’ve never done that myself. We’re supposed to use Concur for all travel, but in a pinch we can book direct or through another portal — but that’s understandable discouraged.
I’ve worked for the “you can’t book in J even if it is cheaper than Y” places before tho. It’s so silly.
The typical rule is that if you do 4 or more international trips a year you can fly J (and if you know that’s going to happen you can start booking that way). But certain teams have more strict or leniant policies.
My team is lucky in that any flight over 7 hours can be business (total flight time). I’ve heard of people booking a higher class at the corporate rate and then only expensing the Y fare - but I’ve never done that myself. We’re supposed to use Concur for all travel, but in a pinch we can book direct or through another portal — but that’s understandable discouraged.
I’ve worked for the “you can’t book in J even if it is cheaper than Y” places before tho. It’s so silly.
10-14h in the air in Y each way was the norm, but luckily infrequent experience.
Jan 19, 2019, 8:50 am
#45
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 1
Since you're curious on policies:
I'm surprised so many people think there is room to negotiate during hiring on the issue of travel class. Many companies in my experience don't have the room to be "flexible" with employees on policy aspects like this because of concerns over equity/putting them at risk for discrimination claims ("you let Bob fly in biz to Tokyo, but you won't let me fly in biz to Seoul? Is it because I'm XYZ?"). Much easier (from company's perspective) to have one standard policy that applies to everyone, or applies to everyone in a certain work group/category/travel type ("Biz is only for folks at this level or in this department;" or flights to this destination; or flights of this length; or what have you).
Maybe at smaller companies it's easier to have more flexibility?
I currently work for an organization that is ONLY coach (I won't even say Y because it's not Y, truly -- it's the lowest non-basic coach fare class), no matter the flight length/destination/etc., unless there is a medical necessity cleared in advance by HR (and some sort of doctor situation I am assuming -- don't know anyone who has done this). That applies to everyone -- from the lowest rung to the person at the very top.
What I appreciate: we don't (YET!) have to use a preferred carrier or a specific booking system, nor do we have to necessarily choose the absolute cheapest ticket for the routing, though we may be required to demonstrate why the ticket we purchased was significantly out of the projected/budgeted/planned travel cost for the trip if it looks that way. What I mean is this: I have a colleague who is DM with Delta because he loves Delta. He can get away with buying a $1600 Delta fare (in economy) to South Africa even if it's $300 more expensive than the same routing on American. He can also buy the trip on his personal Delta-branded CC and accrue the credit card miles and get reimbursed (though of course there is a decent lag period there). It also helps him hit the Delta CC DM Waiver Spend (though not next year!).
When I started here I came from a company where we had to use Concur/Egencia and always pay with our corporate card ("Risk Management!"), so I appreciate this, even though we must buy in coach. I don't buy my tickets on my personal CC usually because I don't want to carry $5-10k credit for my employer while I am waiting to be reimbursed (it can take an annoying length of time).
What this does mean though is that I can buy the $1800 United coach fare to Sydney, when American is $1600. However I wouldn't buy the $2800 United coach fare to Cairo, when it's $1400 with American, $1450 with Delta, or $1500 with Lufthansa (which, yes, gets me the PQM but not the PQD).
I also just want to say: I am always surprised when people assume that international coach is *so cheap.* I'm not talking about last-minute fully flexible fares, either. My routings -- purchased weeks or months out -- in coach usually run somewhere around $1500 each. In 2018 I paid $1800 (US-China), $1400 (US-Asia), $1800 (US-Australia), $1500 (US-Europe), $1600 (US-Asia), etc., depending on the specific destination, time of travel, etc. Yes, it's NOT the $7k you'd spend on an Asia biz ticket, but it's not like these are $600 fares, either. And that's not being carrier-bound to United. I ended up with >1K worth of PQM for 2018 but not the equivalent PQD because I bought a decent number of codeshare partner tickets that were >$1k more each if purchased on 016 stock. I also ended up with status on Delta and American because some routings were just much more expensive on Star Alliance partners. For example, I have struggled to find competitively priced Star Alliance fares to Vietnam and India.
I'm surprised so many people think there is room to negotiate during hiring on the issue of travel class. Many companies in my experience don't have the room to be "flexible" with employees on policy aspects like this because of concerns over equity/putting them at risk for discrimination claims ("you let Bob fly in biz to Tokyo, but you won't let me fly in biz to Seoul? Is it because I'm XYZ?"). Much easier (from company's perspective) to have one standard policy that applies to everyone, or applies to everyone in a certain work group/category/travel type ("Biz is only for folks at this level or in this department;" or flights to this destination; or flights of this length; or what have you).
Maybe at smaller companies it's easier to have more flexibility?
I currently work for an organization that is ONLY coach (I won't even say Y because it's not Y, truly -- it's the lowest non-basic coach fare class), no matter the flight length/destination/etc., unless there is a medical necessity cleared in advance by HR (and some sort of doctor situation I am assuming -- don't know anyone who has done this). That applies to everyone -- from the lowest rung to the person at the very top.
What I appreciate: we don't (YET!) have to use a preferred carrier or a specific booking system, nor do we have to necessarily choose the absolute cheapest ticket for the routing, though we may be required to demonstrate why the ticket we purchased was significantly out of the projected/budgeted/planned travel cost for the trip if it looks that way. What I mean is this: I have a colleague who is DM with Delta because he loves Delta. He can get away with buying a $1600 Delta fare (in economy) to South Africa even if it's $300 more expensive than the same routing on American. He can also buy the trip on his personal Delta-branded CC and accrue the credit card miles and get reimbursed (though of course there is a decent lag period there). It also helps him hit the Delta CC DM Waiver Spend (though not next year!).
When I started here I came from a company where we had to use Concur/Egencia and always pay with our corporate card ("Risk Management!"), so I appreciate this, even though we must buy in coach. I don't buy my tickets on my personal CC usually because I don't want to carry $5-10k credit for my employer while I am waiting to be reimbursed (it can take an annoying length of time).
What this does mean though is that I can buy the $1800 United coach fare to Sydney, when American is $1600. However I wouldn't buy the $2800 United coach fare to Cairo, when it's $1400 with American, $1450 with Delta, or $1500 with Lufthansa (which, yes, gets me the PQM but not the PQD).
I also just want to say: I am always surprised when people assume that international coach is *so cheap.* I'm not talking about last-minute fully flexible fares, either. My routings -- purchased weeks or months out -- in coach usually run somewhere around $1500 each. In 2018 I paid $1800 (US-China), $1400 (US-Asia), $1800 (US-Australia), $1500 (US-Europe), $1600 (US-Asia), etc., depending on the specific destination, time of travel, etc. Yes, it's NOT the $7k you'd spend on an Asia biz ticket, but it's not like these are $600 fares, either. And that's not being carrier-bound to United. I ended up with >1K worth of PQM for 2018 but not the equivalent PQD because I bought a decent number of codeshare partner tickets that were >$1k more each if purchased on 016 stock. I also ended up with status on Delta and American because some routings were just much more expensive on Star Alliance partners. For example, I have struggled to find competitively priced Star Alliance fares to Vietnam and India.