PE costs more than Polaris

Old Jan 6, 19, 5:27 pm
  #16  
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Originally Posted by mozilla View Post
How would this work if D-7 and J is empty and PE has 1 seat left, what should the availability look like?

Protect J's premium pricing, cash in on PE but risk going out with J half empty: J9 C4 D0 Z0 P0 O1 A0 R0
Sell your in-demand cabin below value so you can keep selling and start filling the higher cabin, still at a premium vs the lower cabin: J9 C9 D9 Z4 P4 O1 A1 R1
Keep availability balanced with demand and forgo higher pricing on higher cabin (subject of thread): J9 C9 D9 Z9 P0 O1 A0 R0

Or do you mean that the fare pricing isn't optimized enough at this stage and that is where changes should be made?
Assuming literally empty J (which is pretty bizarre at T-7d, but let's assume we got an edge case from a vacation time-frame): J9 C9 D9 Z9 P9 PN9 PZ9 IN9 I9 O9 A9 R9 RN9 and let the AP restrictions in the fare table and op-ups handle the rest of it. LH op-ups from PE to J all the time, and it feels inevitable with such a small cabin.

In a more sane world where J is somewhat lightly booked but not literally empty, I would still expect the cabins to track relatively closely: J9 C9 D9 Z9 P9 PN0 O9 A9 R0 RN0
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Old Jan 6, 19, 7:28 pm
  #17  
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If corporate policies are going to allow PE and not J, I can see this happening a lot and not as an error/accident to capture the demand curve.
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Old Jan 6, 19, 10:19 pm
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Originally Posted by Often1 View Post
Hard to tell from OP's screenshot. But, if the PE fare is flexible and the C fare is inflexible, that would easily explain the fare delta in this instance.
Perhaps the website GUI could or should show "Lowest, flexible" instead of just "Lowest" to avoid confusion.

Originally Posted by findark View Post
In a more sane world where J is somewhat lightly booked but not literally empty, I would still expect the cabins to track relatively closely: J9 C9 D9 Z9 P9 PN0 O9 A9 R0 RN0
I'll try to find out how LH handles this - in some markets, they have to juggle 4 INTL cabins instead of 3 - but could a fare differential be realistically and technically implemented here like is the case on the domestic market?

Originally Posted by mduell View Post
If corporate policies are going to allow PE and not J, I can see this happening a lot and not as an error/accident to capture the demand curve.
Eventually, the corporate world will catch on. But it's possible they're milking it as long as they can.
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Old Jan 6, 19, 10:24 pm
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Originally Posted by mduell View Post
If corporate policies are going to allow PE and not J, I can see this happening a lot and not as an error/accident to capture the demand curve.
i agree. Before current pricing models were used for First Class fares it was not uncommon to see discounted forward cabin seats available for lower prices than Economy Class when the flight was Y1 or Y2. I had a boss tell me once in such a circumstance that he didn’t want to have to explain why I bought First Class so I should buy the more expensive Coach ticket. He didn’t last long as a people/budget manager thankfully.
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Old Jan 6, 19, 10:30 pm
  #20  
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Originally Posted by mozilla View Post
I'll try to find out how LH handles this - in some markets, they have to juggle 4 INTL cabins instead of 3 - but could a fare differential be realistically and technically implemented here like is the case on the domestic market?
If differential pricing is possible, so is double-differential pricing (e.g., requires P, R, and W inventory to book). Itís just one additional check. A software update might be needed, but it doesnít seem like it would be a complex one; just make sure the inventory checks are loops.

Practically, though, it seems like a nightmare given the size of the PE cabin relative to J. If you link P and R availability, you risk not being able to fill your J cabin because PE sales were brisk, or filling PE with R passengers just to keep P available.
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Old Jan 7, 19, 1:05 am
  #21  
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Originally Posted by mozilla View Post
I'll try to find out how LH handles this - in some markets, they have to juggle 4 INTL cabins instead of 3 - but could a fare differential be realistically and technically implemented here like is the case on the domestic market?
The LH/TATL approach is to almost always offer second-tier PE inventory. G is not used as a "real" fare; the only G fare LH will publish in normal circumstances is the full normal fare, so they can retreat there in exceptional inventory circumstances. Given the cabin size, if LH is booking into G it's because J is already full (deeply overbooked or actually sold) and they are otherwise happy to sell E fares into a less heavily booked J cabin. Any circumstance where G is pricing has C or D as lowest Business inventory. The anomaly here is UA not offering A space, and I'm sure they'll figure it out eventually.

TPAC resolves this by just having really cheap PE price points (Asia) or really high J price points (ANZ).
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Old Jan 9, 19, 6:14 pm
  #22  
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Saw this as well with points, Dublin to Newark in early September:
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Last edited by 77Pat; Jan 9, 19 at 6:20 pm
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Old Jan 10, 19, 12:16 am
  #23  
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Originally Posted by Kacee View Post
Well that's really UA's call. And it seems to me you're already describing an anomalous situation, because they should not ordinarily be in that situation . . . if they are, PE is cannibalizing J, as opposed to commanding a premium over Y, which is the whole point of offering a PE product. But if they're really down to O1, then I would think it should get last seat pricing, regardless of the J load.

If in practice UA is able to routinely sell out PE at a price that's higher than their available P or Z inventory, well more power to them. If they're able to do that, I presume they'll sell O all day long at full fare, and just op-up into J. But color me skeptical that's how this will play out. What I think is far more likely in these early days of PE is the J cabin will continue to sell as it more or less historically has, and the PE cabin will remain empty unless/until UA makes a reasonable amount of discount inventory available, particularly on flights where Z and P are still for sale.
IME LH offers a discount fare on their PE inventory most of the time. Hopefully UA will do the same.
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