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UA Int'l SFO Route Expansion: SFO-DEL/MEL/YYZ, ICN dbl daily, AMS/PPT/AKL Year Round

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Old Dec 12, 2018, 10:59 am
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Last edit by: WineCountryUA
United Airlines Announces Largest International Route Expansion in San Francisco

Announces new nonstop service to New Delhi, Toronto and Melbourne, Australia
Adds second daily flight to Seoul, South Korea, increasing to 11 flights weekly
Begins year-round nonstop service to Amsterdam, Auckland and Tahiti in 2019

SAN FRANCISCO, Dec. 12, 2018 /PRNewswire/ -- United Airlines today announced its largest ever international network expansion from its hub at San Francisco International Airport. The airline will offer Bay Area customers nonstop year-round service to Toronto and Melbourne, Australia and seasonal service to New Delhi. United also announced it will begin a second daily flight between San Francisco and Seoul, South Korea. All routes subject to government approvals. In addition to the new routes, in 2019, United will begin new year-round nonstop service between San Francisco and Auckland, New Zealand, Tahiti, French Polynesia and Amsterdam.

"This route expansion solidifies United's position at San Francisco as the gateway airline serving destinations across the Pacific, the continental United States, as well as to Europe and beyond," said Oscar Munoz, United's CEO. "It serves as a fitting capstone to all our efforts that made 2018 a breakthrough year for United, from delivering strong financial performance to currently leading in on-time departures for the second year in a row."

"San Francisco continues to be a cultural and economic hub for the world," said U.S. Senator Dianne Feinstein. "These new routes will expand international travel to and from San Francisco International Airport, helping us forge stronger connections between our city and other major destinations around the globe."

Since 2013, United Airlines has added 12 new international destinations from San Francisco. With these new flights, United will serve 29 international destinations from San Francisco, including eight cities in Europe, India, and the Middle East, seven in North America, and 14 in Asia and Oceania. United, the largest airline at San Francisco International Airport, operates more than 300 daily flights.

"This is great news for all of our customers and employees in the Bay Area, and a sign that United is deeply committed to growing San Francisco and adding unique and exciting destinations across the globe," said Janet Lamkin, United's President of California.

United has been a Bay Area company for 90 years and employs 14,000 people in the region, including 2,500 industrial jobs at its maintenance base, which recently celebrated its 70th anniversary of operation. United continues to invest in the airport, this year opening the 28,000-square foot Polaris lounge near Gate G92 in International Terminal G.

San Francisco to Amsterdam
United recently announced it will offer nonstop daily year-round service between San Francisco and Amsterdam. With this new flight, United will be the first U.S. carrier to fly between California and Amsterdam. United currently serves Amsterdam nonstop from its hubs in Chicago, Houston, New York/Newark and Washington, D.C. The new San Francisco service begins on March 30, 2019 and will be operated with Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner aircraft.

San Francisco to Melbourne, Australia
Offering the most service between the U.S. West Coast and Australia by any U.S. carrier, United is adding new nonstop year-round service between San Francisco and Melbourne three times per week, beginning October 29, 2019. For more than 35 years, United has offered nonstop service to Australia. Today, United offers nonstop service to Sydney from Houston, Los Angeles and San Francisco and provides nonstop service between Los Angeles and Melbourne. United operates all flights between the U.S. and Australia with Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner aircraft.

San Francisco to New Delhi, India
United's new seasonal service between San Francisco and New Delhi enables business and leisure travelers nonstop access from the U.S. West Coast. The new flight will connect customers from more than 80 cities to India with just one stop in San Francisco. United currently offers nonstop service to Mumbai and New Delhi from New York/Newark. Seasonal service begins on December 5, 2019, with Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner aircraft.

San Francisco to Seoul, South Korea
United is adding a second flight – flown four times per week – between San Francisco and Seoul, South Korea. The airline has served Seoul for more than 30 years from San Francisco. The second flight will provide customers with new time and itinerary options, while providing convenient connections to more than 80 destinations. The additional flights begin on April 1, 2019 and will be operated with Boeing 777-200ER aircraft.

San Francisco to Toronto, Canada
United's new twice-daily nonstop year-round service between San Francisco and Toronto begins March 31, 2019, offering convenient connections for business and leisure travelers from throughout the western United States, Asia and the South Pacific. United currently offers more than 20 daily flights between Toronto and its hubs in Chicago, Denver, Houston, New York/Newark and Washington Dulles. In addition to Toronto, United operates daily nonstop service between San Francisco and Calgary and Vancouver. United will operate service with Boeing 737-800.

San Francisco to Pape'ete, Tahiti, extended to year-round
This fall, United began the only nonstop service offered by a U.S. carrier between the mainland U.S. and Tahiti with its San Francisco – Pape'ete flight. The airline recently announced it is extending its Tahiti schedule to year-round service from San Francisco. Year-round service on Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays begins March 30, 2019. United operates Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner aircraft between San Francisco and Pape'ete.

San Francisco to Auckland, New Zealand, extended to year-round
Beginning March 30, 2019, United will extend service between its West Coast hub in San Francisco and Auckland to year-round with three-times-weekly service. In partnership with Air New Zealand, United's flight arriving in Auckland offers passengers more than 20 connections across the region and the return trip utilizes United's extensive route network in San Francisco, which provides connections to the United States, Canada, and Latin America. United's extended service between San Francisco and Auckland will operate with Boeing 777-200ER aircraft.


Pre-announcement speculation thread
United Airlines CEO to Make Historic Route Announcement Tomorrow (12 Dec 2018)
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UA Int'l SFO Route Expansion: SFO-DEL/MEL/YYZ, ICN dbl daily, AMS/PPT/AKL Year Round

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Old Dec 12, 2018, 7:01 pm
  #76  
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Originally Posted by samyoull
The real excitement about UA flying YYZ-SFO is assumedly the UA birds will actually have WiFi. Feels like a complete waste to fly AC737 and not have any connectivity.
On a 738

The days of getting lie flat from Asia to YYZ on 016 tickets with dirt cheap AC codeshares add-on are over
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Old Dec 12, 2018, 7:20 pm
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Originally Posted by david_oz


i was thinking exactly the same thing. Every one of my flights into SFO this year at the G gates has been accompanied be an announcement like “we are 15 minutes early, but an aircraft is at our gate and it will take another 30 minutes”

Pretty good announcement though. Agree the DEL timing is horrible. Great to have another SFO/Australia option with the MEL flight.
Was just going to post this thought myself. I assume there is funding to make the penalty box much much larger....
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Old Dec 12, 2018, 8:20 pm
  #78  
 
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Looking at some of the YYZ-SFO fares in the summer, I'm seeing ~$1050 USD for AC PY RT, and ~$1250 USD for UA J RT booking into Z. That's actually not bad at all. If this is the price range they're playing in then I take back my complaints. Does anyone know if you can generally GG BUYUP on bookings via a corporate TA?
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Old Dec 12, 2018, 8:30 pm
  #79  
 
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Would would United fly SFO-DEL when Air India is already doing that. Why not LAX-DEL, SFO-BOM, IAD-BOM instead?
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Old Dec 12, 2018, 8:46 pm
  #80  
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Originally Posted by hokiebuy
Would would United fly SFO-DEL when Air India is already doing that. Why not LAX-DEL, SFO-BOM, IAD-BOM instead?
SFO is the only logical US endpoint. ORD-DEL ns was announced in 2001 but 9/11 scrapped it before it began.

probably range issues for BOM. If UA had stayed in the A350 roadmap we could get more ULH.
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Old Dec 12, 2018, 8:51 pm
  #81  
 
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Originally Posted by Repooc17
The days of getting lie flat from Asia to YYZ on 016 tickets with dirt cheap AC codeshares add-on are over
One of the first things I thought of too since I only recently had the pleasure to do that.
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Old Dec 12, 2018, 9:04 pm
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The introduction of the YYZ <-> SFO service explains a lot about what was going on with the fares between those two cities with AC. It used to be that you could purchase the AC non-stop ticket for as little as 1/2 the cost of the AC ticketed price if you ticket it through UA. Then after Easter of this year, UA started charging more than AC to ticket those flights. No doubt AC is unhappy with competition in a market they virtually dominated. That being said, AC still has the better J product for that route on a 787 with lie flats. I'd be curious to see if the UA flights are CPU'able between YYZ and SFO. If so, then that would change my calculus as to whether I'd book on AC vs UA metal.

Safe Travels,

James
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Old Dec 12, 2018, 9:09 pm
  #83  
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Originally Posted by j2simpso
The introduction of the YYZ <-> SFO service explains a lot about what was going on with the fares between those two cities with AC. It used to be that you could purchase the AC non-stop ticket for as little as 1/2 the cost of the AC ticketed price if you ticket it through UA. Then after Easter of this year, UA started charging more than AC to ticket those flights. No doubt AC is unhappy with competition in a market they virtually dominated.
I highly doubt that AC knew anything in April about a route UA was going to introduce in December for travel the following April, in direct violation of applicable anti-trust law.

Originally Posted by j2simpso
That being said, AC still has the better J product for that route on a 787 with lie flats. I'd be curious to see if the UA flights are CPU'able between YYZ and SFO. If so, then that would change my calculus as to whether I'd book on AC vs UA metal.
They'll be CPU-eligible, but I wouldn't expect CPUs to be plentiful.
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Old Dec 12, 2018, 9:27 pm
  #84  
 
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The second ICN flight is certainly very much welcomed by me, though I'd much have rather it been to ORD or EWR. At least with the second flight it makes same day connections to and from LIM (via IAH) possible. LIM from ICN is hell both directions right now if using the UA metal flight in and out of ICN.
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Old Dec 12, 2018, 9:35 pm
  #85  
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Originally Posted by dvs7310
The second ICN flight is certainly very much welcomed by me
And the 11:30 a.m. ICN departure is much better for the intra-Asia connections (e.g., BKK), many of which involve redeye early morning arrivals and currently require a 10 hour layover at ICN.

Polarized 772 will be better than 789, too.
Originally Posted by adambrau
Still hoping for SFO-BKK in the future.
Would love to see that. But when they're adding a second ICN over a first BKK, I think that tells us something about where BKK falls on the list.
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Old Dec 12, 2018, 9:44 pm
  #86  
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Originally Posted by jsloan
I highly doubt that AC knew anything in April about a route UA was going to introduce in December for travel the following April, in direct violation of applicable anti-trust law.
They'll be CPU-eligible, but I wouldn't expect CPUs to be plentiful.
Of course, got CPU a few times ex YVR and YYC @:-)

YYJ (route soon to be discontinued) on the Devil's Chariot, not so much

Originally Posted by Kacee
And the 11:30 a.m. ICN departure is much better for the intra-Asia connections (e.g., BKK), many of which involve redeye early morning arrivals and currently require a 10 hour layover at ICN.
Polarized 772 will be better than 789, too.

Would love to see that. But when they're adding a second ICN over a first BKK, I think that tells us something about where BKK falls on the list.
Ya, pretty much Too many Khaosan Road flyers and not enough Biz fliers.
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Old Dec 12, 2018, 9:55 pm
  #87  
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Originally Posted by hokiebuy
Would would United fly SFO-DEL when Air India is already doing that. Why not LAX-DEL, SFO-BOM, IAD-BOM instead?
great circle distances:

SFO-DEL: 6697nm
SFO-BOM: 7305nm
SFO-BLR: 7561nm (BLR field elevation 3000ft)

UA's two longest 789 routes:

SFO-SIN: 7339nm
IAH-SYD: 7470nm
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Old Dec 12, 2018, 10:02 pm
  #88  
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Originally Posted by riphamilton
great circle distances:

SFO-DEL: 6697nm
SFO-BOM: 7305nm
SFO-BLR: 7561nm (BLR field elevation 3000ft)

UA's two longest 789 routes:

SFO-SIN: 7339nm
IAH-SYD: 7470nm
And the other two OP asked about:
LAX-DEL: 6,963nm
IAD-BOM: 6,954nm

Assuming that they didn't have to divert too far from the great circle route due to winds or ETOPS reasons, these would be within range. However, UA has much more domestic lift into SFO than it does into LAX, so SFO-DEL is better for connections than LAX-DEL would be, and IAD-BOM doesn't seem like it would serve a hugely distinct market from EWR-BOM; you'd have to have enough O&D traffic to make it worthwhile plus you'd need to make sure you weren't cannibalizing connecting traffic on the EWR flight. Adding a west-coast flight makes more sense than an east coast flight if you consider connections.
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Old Dec 12, 2018, 10:56 pm
  #89  
 
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Pretty lame, oh well. Speculating was fun
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Old Dec 12, 2018, 11:25 pm
  #90  
 
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Originally Posted by EWR764
. And all this ignores the SFO-DEL local market, which itself is considerable, and XXX-SFO-DEL too.
The major industries in DEL are government, banking, insurance, financial services, and agriculture, also some tourism. None have links to SFO. NYC yes, SFO no. The business travel in J is to BOM/BLR. There is probably as much paid J damand to a place like Hyderabad as DEL from SFO. There may be some low end travel back to India by expats, but even then, most of the high tech workers in the US were not from DEL, its BOM/BLR, etc. And I doubt that SFO is going to get much connecting demand given the flight times over doing a connection in SIN/HKG/Japan or Europe/ME, given the rather ugly flight times UA has chosen.

Originally Posted by hokiebuy
Would would United fly SFO-DEL when Air India is already doing that. Why not LAX-DEL, SFO-BOM, IAD-BOM instead?
Range, as discussed earlier. That said, if there was enough demand in J to support this type of ULR flight, I doubt Air India would be able to win much US based traffic, it is such a wretched airline that even UA perhaps provides better service (or at least has a slightly better reputation). [That said, Skytrax has UA as 3 of 10, and Air India is 6 of 10].

Originally Posted by uastarflyer


SFO is the only logical US endpoint. ORD-DEL ns was announced in 2001 but 9/11 scrapped it before it began.

probably range issues for BOM. If UA had stayed in the A350 roadmap we could get more ULH.
The A350 does not have appreciably longer range, and it may have no extra range (sources vary on this point). What does have a longer range is the A359ulr, but UA never ordered them, so its a moot issue.

Originally Posted by riphamilton
great circle distances:

SFO-DEL: 6697nm
SFO-BOM: 7305nm
SFO-BLR: 7561nm (BLR field elevation 3000ft)

UA's two longest 789 routes:

SFO-SIN: 7339nm
IAH-SYD: 7470nm
You have to cross restricted Chinese or Russian Airspace, which limits routings and requires more fuel, plus have to cross the Himalayas. My understanding is that you need more fuel to do this, hence shorter range. To give an e.g. UA blocks SFO-SIN at 17 hours 20 minutes, IA blocks SFO-DEL at 16 hours 15 minutes, given the typical cruising speed (about 490 knots) they are allotting a lot of extra block time to SFO-DEL.
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