quintic

CBP agent

I understand that full fare GUM-HNL is terrible idea.
The question is here, if I hold a valid visa to enter US, can I enter Guam? if so, then treat this as port of entry, why need onward ticket to mainland?
In this case, it is YAP-GUM-ROR-GUM-HNL-... the final destination is the US. It is like if I fly to SFO-YVR-SFO-DEN for example, I doubt that CBP in SFO will give me a hard time.

jsloan

Miles Ahead

Not necessarily. If your purpose is transit, you need a transit visa. A visa for another purpose - study, marriage () etc. is not necessarily enough.

mduell

Visas have purposes and limitations attached to them. A visa to go to school/OPT is not an all purpose visa for whatever you want to do in/through the US.

The CBP officer is correct if she's not doing YAP-GUM-ROR for school/OPT purposes.

quintic

I did the research this afternoon. CBP is not wrong here. The solution is now find another local airline that fly nonstop YAP-ROR (one flight per week), and cancel YAP-GUM-ROR leg, talked to a very nice UA agent to allow her to keep the ROR-US flight.
This probably is a bit off topic here.
Going back to the case, if she has to the YAP-GUM-ROR flight, and plan ahead, what can she do? Apply C visa? will applying C visa invalidate the F visa? I didn't find any answers on USCIS website.
Question 2: If her flight is YAP-GUAM onwards to China (home) via (HKG or NRT or ICN) does she need a transit visa as well? If she arrives at Guam holding an onward ticket to HKG, will CBP deny her entry and send her back to YAP? or will they force her to make onward flight to US?
I mean rule is rule, doesn't mean the rule is not stupid. I understand that each visa category has its purpose, but come on, a transit could be the least problem of any possible abuse of visa.
And back to my early question: If she book a flight PVG-SFO-YVR, I don't think CBP at SFO will ever ask about her next flight. (given she has multiple entry F visa and valid Canadian tourist visa).

I am wondering how much business does the US airlines lost due to the transit visa requirement and customs.

jsloan

mduell

I'd WAG over a billion dollars a year.

quintic

When her mom joined us for a trip to Antarctica last year, her mom booked an AC flight transit at YYZ, saved her lots of trouble. (Her mom has B visa and Canadian visa, allows transit though)

School is not running 365days/year, there is thanksgiving break, Christmas break, or spring break. And she has done quite a lot travel for conference all over the world.
F-visa though faced a lot scrutiny than B visa (since 911 I think), in my opinion, a lot of administrative background check.

findark

The normal case (ignoring the F visa) is that the TIMATIC check results in denial of boarding at the original airport (YAP in this case). I feel like in this particular circumstance CBP is likely to just get her out on the next ticketed flight (most convenient resolution for them), but that is absolutely not something you want to gamble with. The USA is just not set up to handle I/I transits very well - case in point that they can't even manage an airside international transit area in GUM.

quintic

That is a very interesting point.
1) At check in, if she shows the F-visa most likely airline will allow her to board. In a normal case, if you are denied entry, the carrier is responsible to fly you back. YAP or ROR or mainland US?
2) She is not gambling here. It is just poor planning. Anyway, the new plan is to take Caroline Island Air to ROR.

I always wanted to try island hopping, I guess not any time soon. No worth the trouble. Technically Guam is a transit point in island hopping route.

As for the visa, I think if you have already allow this person to enter the country, studying or working, what harm can this person cause for take a transit flight? It is not the intended purpose, but student or worker, they have vacations, when taking a vacation, making a connection on US soil, it will only bring in rev, and I don't see any harm at all.

findark

The traditional case would involve the delivering carrier receiving a reasonably hefty fine from the refusing country and then flying the pax back to their point of origin (most times this happens the pax is legally resident in the origin port). There are a number of reasons why that isn't so straightforward here (or in a number of other cases), which is why I think the actual practical truth is going to be whatever the CBP officer on duty decides, and here the "ideal bureaucrat theorem" applies where the bureaucrat (CBP officer) who is paid to do a job but isn't morally invested in it will choose whatever path ultimately leads to the smallest amount of paperwork or hassle for them (maybe getting someone to watch her airside without processing a US entry and then loading her onto the onward flight -- maybe holding her for a while until UA can send her back to either YAP or the mainland).

TIMATIC is usually good for catching this at departure because the delivering carrier really, really does not want to be involved in a situation like this. I'm not terribly sure what the obligation is for a carrier who takes a citizen of C from A (exiting from a single-entry now-void visa) to B (where they are inadmissible), but I would assume they have to ultimately transport them back to C at their expense. It gets even worse in the more difficult case of someone who is not legally allowed entry anywhere (maybe dump them at LYR ) but I think that's pretty rare.

quintic

A few years back, I met a Chinese guy at HAV airport, his ticket was PEK-SVO-HAV; HAV-MEX-PVG. He was stuck at gate area, I suppose that he already got ticket to MEX, but was denied of boarding due to no visa to MEX.
"Passengers transiting through Mexico City (MEX) with a confirmed onward ticket for a flight to a third country within 24 hours. They must stay in the international transit area of the airport and have documents required for the next destination."
My guess is that he might need to switch terminal at MEX that complicates the issue.
I don't know how eventually he got out of there. The cubans asked for all his money to "book" him a flight home. I thought Aeroflot might need to take him back.

HkCaGu

MEX-PVG is actually MEX-TIJ-PVG, so he has to go domestic, thereby eliminating any possibility to abide by that requirement.

findark

As long as he isn't allowed to board HAV-MEX though, it's not any airline's problem -- he's just stuck in Cuba without a valid ticket and that's between him and the Cuban authorities.