Why is United so Premium-Heavy Compared to Delta, American
Nov 15, 2018, 1:22 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: SFO, JFK/LGA, SEA
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Why is United so Premium-Heavy Compared to Delta, American
As Polaris seats have been rolled out, United has the following counts of Business Class seats across its fleet:
- 60 on 777-300ER, 50 on retrofitted 777-200 planes.
- 48 on 787-9, 36 on 787-8, (soon to be) 44 on the 787-10
- 30 on their 767's
- 28 on Internationally Configured 757-200s.
Meanwhile, Delta has only:
- 32 DeltaOne suites on their A350
- 28 seats (soon to be DeltaOne) on their 777-200s
- 34 seats on their A330s
- ranging from 26 to 40 seats on 767s
And American has:
- 52 Business Class seats (and 8 First Class)
- ranging from 37 to 45 seats on their 777-200s
- 28 seats on their 787-8s, and 30 on their 787-9s
- 20 seats on their A330-200s, and 28 on their A330-300s
- 28 seats on their 767s
For no aircraft (except the 767 vs. Delta) does United have fewer Business Class seats, and for some (like the 787s vs American, or 777 vs Delta), they have substantially more seats. Anyone have any insight into what their strategy for this is? On my recent United flights (mostly to Asia), I've noticed that they sell out 80%+ of the Business Class cabin, but I don't notice that their fares are substantially cheaper than either Delta's or American's. Are their hubs just better situated for Business travel, SFO in particular (with the explosion of tech companies)?
Thought this could be an interesting discussion
- 60 on 777-300ER, 50 on retrofitted 777-200 planes.
- 48 on 787-9, 36 on 787-8, (soon to be) 44 on the 787-10
- 30 on their 767's
- 28 on Internationally Configured 757-200s.
Meanwhile, Delta has only:
- 32 DeltaOne suites on their A350
- 28 seats (soon to be DeltaOne) on their 777-200s
- 34 seats on their A330s
- ranging from 26 to 40 seats on 767s
And American has:
- 52 Business Class seats (and 8 First Class)
- ranging from 37 to 45 seats on their 777-200s
- 28 seats on their 787-8s, and 30 on their 787-9s
- 20 seats on their A330-200s, and 28 on their A330-300s
- 28 seats on their 767s
For no aircraft (except the 767 vs. Delta) does United have fewer Business Class seats, and for some (like the 787s vs American, or 777 vs Delta), they have substantially more seats. Anyone have any insight into what their strategy for this is? On my recent United flights (mostly to Asia), I've noticed that they sell out 80%+ of the Business Class cabin, but I don't notice that their fares are substantially cheaper than either Delta's or American's. Are their hubs just better situated for Business travel, SFO in particular (with the explosion of tech companies)?
Thought this could be an interesting discussion
Nov 15, 2018, 2:34 am
#3
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: SF Bay Area
Programs: UA GS, AA EXP, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Platinum, Mlife NOIR
Posts: 320
United has better hub cities and a much stronger international route network especially for the tech and finance industries.
In fact, even with smaller J cabins, I’ve found AA to be consistently cheaper than UA for my routings. On many routes, getting an upgrade the week of departure is easy with AA whereas J cabins are fully sold out a week ahead on UA.
That said, as premium as SFO and EWR are, they can’t (yet) hold a candle to London. That’s the reason why BA can fill a 747-400 with 86J/14F seats!
Personally, I think 60J seats on a 77W is too few on many SFO-starting routes, especially SFO-FRA.
In fact, even with smaller J cabins, I’ve found AA to be consistently cheaper than UA for my routings. On many routes, getting an upgrade the week of departure is easy with AA whereas J cabins are fully sold out a week ahead on UA.
That said, as premium as SFO and EWR are, they can’t (yet) hold a candle to London. That’s the reason why BA can fill a 747-400 with 86J/14F seats!
Personally, I think 60J seats on a 77W is too few on many SFO-starting routes, especially SFO-FRA.
Nov 15, 2018, 3:28 am
#4
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Because premium is where the money is made and UA focuses, as much as possible on those routes. Conversely, it leaves fewer seats to be dumped at the bottom of the market.
The silver lining is that UA often has easy upgrades over the Christmas holidays and in August, when there is no business travel.
The silver lining is that UA often has easy upgrades over the Christmas holidays and in August, when there is no business travel.
Nov 15, 2018, 4:02 am
#5
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 1,309
Simple
United is in hub markets that generate a lot of paid premium travel. Ewr, ord, sfo, iah, iad. These cities generate on average more paid J travel than Atlanta, Charlotte, Dallas, Detroit, Minneapolis, etc. United configures their aircraft accordingly.
Nov 15, 2018, 5:06 am
#6
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Nov 15, 2018, 5:14 am
#7
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DL has been reducing the number of business class seats in many of their aircraft, and the trend will continue as aircraft are refitted with suites.
DL has always had far fewer C+ seats than UA has Y+.
DL has always had far fewer C+ seats than UA has Y+.
Nov 15, 2018, 8:58 am
#9
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: DEN
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Posts: 3,930
United has better hub cities and a much stronger international route network especially for the tech and finance industries.
That said, as premium as SFO and EWR are, they can’t (yet) hold a candle to London. That’s the reason why BA can fill a 747-400 with 86J/14F seats!
That said, as premium as SFO and EWR are, they can’t (yet) hold a candle to London. That’s the reason why BA can fill a 747-400 with 86J/14F seats!
Nov 15, 2018, 9:05 am
#10
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: LAX
Programs: UA MM | BA Silver
Posts: 7,193
Delta to Possibly Add More Premium Seats
The new revenue, both from cash and miles upgrades, has been so profitable Delta might consider installing more premium seats, executives said.
“There’s nothing keeping us from making more seats in those cabins because they are the higher-margin pieces of our equation,” Hauenstein said.
From Skift
“There’s nothing keeping us from making more seats in those cabins because they are the higher-margin pieces of our equation,” Hauenstein said.
From Skift
Nov 15, 2018, 9:24 am
#11
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: ORD
Programs: United 1K, Hyatt Discoverist
Posts: 590
For what it's worth, UA is making the low-density 767 with ~45J to better serve Premium markets. ORD-LHR has great premium demand and little coach demand (especially without a connecting partner at LHR).
Nov 15, 2018, 10:02 am
#12
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: SF Bay Area
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Posts: 320
Comparing to BA is not really helpful as the pricing for J from Europe is very different than pricing from the US. LH can fill J with large cabins on their planes, but as a point of reference, flying DEN-FRA-DEN in J will run you ~$9000 and FRA-DEN-FRA will more likely be ~$5000. Granted, this is specific to routes, but the general rule of thumb is that ex-USA J fares are significantly higher than ex-Europe.
At my company, most J travel is purchased 1-2 weeks out and LHR-SFO-LHR is almost always the same as ex-SFO, or in other words $9-12k given the crazy increases in fares this year.
I’ve yet to be on a BA flight that wasn’t full in J or F.
Nov 15, 2018, 11:07 am
#14
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I think its a function of UA's route network. UA is certainly more transpac heavy, where there's fundamentally a lot more high yield demand due to the longer stages. Out of EWR and ORD they also have a lot of heavy business traffic into the european cities, and TLV of course is often quite heavy in J.
Nov 15, 2018, 11:25 am
#15
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,531
Delta Pacific: 1,635,570
United Pacific: 2,726,993
Delta Atlantic: 3,848,929
United Atlantic: 3,715,350
They're basically tied TATL and UA has double DL's traffic TPAC.