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UA to streamline Polaris Business service & cut FA staffing on some Intl routes

UA to streamline Polaris Business service & cut FA staffing on some Intl routes

Old Nov 6, 2018, 7:39 am
  #31  
 
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Originally Posted by EWR764
Since we aren't going back to the "old way", with a more drawn out, sumptuous service, then it might as well be simpler, faster and easier to deliver. Better to go all-in than keep things stuck in the middle, with cheapened service elements and quality cuts.
Sort of agree, but my concern is the downward spiral:

FAs: "We are overworked. Please lessen our load."
UA: "Okay, we'll streamline food service."
FAs: "Thank you."
UA: "Since we streamlined food service we're cutting one FA."
FAs: "We are now overworked with one less FA. Please lessen our load."
UA: "Okay, we'll streamline xxx service."
FAs: "Thank you."
UA: "Since we streamlined xxx service we're cutting one FA."
and so on....
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Old Nov 6, 2018, 7:40 am
  #32  
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Originally Posted by EWR764
The dining program just isn't special anymore, and hasn't been for years. Since we aren't going back to the "old way", with a more drawn out, sumptuous service, then it might as well be simpler, faster and easier to deliver.
Cutting FA staffing won't make meal service any quicker.

I flew CX J a couple weeks back and the staffing cuts were terribly obvious and played out in glacially slow meal service, despite a competent and hardworking crew. (And this, on an airline where they serve pre-plated entrees off a cart in business class.) I fear the same will become the norm with UA.

Like a poster above, I feel for the crews who are still trying to deliver great service despite the cuts.
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Old Nov 6, 2018, 7:43 am
  #33  
 
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A lot of airlines use pre-plated entrees in C/J, including EK (all entrees), AA and DL (most dishes).

The bigger impact to pax is staffing. As noted, the relatively larger cabins on all aircraft and limited galley size, particularly on the 767, are influencing this change.
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Old Nov 6, 2018, 7:50 am
  #34  
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I'd bet that when this backfires and they are forced to reverse it we'll see a big announcement about imprvements to Polaris...
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Old Nov 6, 2018, 8:03 am
  #35  
 
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Originally Posted by narvik
Sort of agree, but my concern is the downward spiral:

FAs: "We are overworked. Please lessen our load."
UA: "Okay, we'll streamline food service."
FAs: "Thank you."
UA: "Since we streamlined food service we're cutting one FA."
FAs: "We are now overworked with one less FA. Please lessen our load."
UA: "Okay, we'll streamline xxx service."
FAs: "Thank you."
UA: "Since we streamlined xxx service we're cutting one FA."
and so on....
I think that's fair. IMO, the "Polaris 2.0" service standards, which were rolled out last year, were about making the service less labor-intensive, because United has generally reduced FA staffing over the last few years, and FAs weren't happy with the workload. Instead of adding positions on most aircraft, which was the desired effect, the service was modified. Hence, fewer passes through the aisle, a bar cart rather than hand-run drinks, preset tray service, combined salad/appetizer, etc.

Originally Posted by Kacee
Cutting FA staffing won't make meal service any quicker.
I don't think this is axiomatic. Pre-plated entrees need to be heated, foil removed, and run to pax seats. The alternative of plating meals from constituent parts is a more time-consuming process (though potentially a more appealing presentation... but not always).

Certain things, like a separate salad cart, separate cheese cart, hand-run drinks all extend the service. Premium cabin aisle positions aren't being cut, so I don't think we'll see a meaningful decline in the pace or quality of the already watered-down Polaris meal service.

I am not happy about the changes, but don't look at this as necessarily a cutback to the Polaris service. It's a bad thing because it's a reduction in staffing. I disagree categorically with inflight staffing cuts and think this move should be framed as such, which is a negative in its own right.

Last edited by EWR764; Nov 6, 2018 at 8:09 am
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Old Nov 6, 2018, 9:27 am
  #36  
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Originally Posted by EWR764
I disagree categorically with inflight staffing cuts and think this move should be framed as such, which is a negative in its own right.
Agreed. This isn't just about meal service, but about service throughout the flight. All else equal (i.e., quality of FAs), fewer FAs means less attentive service. It's just arithmetic.
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Old Nov 6, 2018, 2:10 pm
  #37  
 
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United Cutting Service Levels [International]

Didn't see this posted anywhere. Gary from VTFW is reporting on a United memo about staffing cuts and meal changes. And you'll never guess who wanted it ... customers!

  • Starting February 1 business class entrees will be plated in advance in order to reduce flight attendant workload and allow them to reduce flight attendant staffing in the cabin by one position. Those entrees aren’t going to look very appealing when they make it to the customer.
  • Where any of their competitors fly with fewer flight attendants, United will too. The goal, apparently, is to offer the lowest levels of service among peers American and Delta. And that’s not just limited to business class, Boeing 757 international routes lose a flight attendant in coach too.
Oddly, United says it’s consistent with what passengers want (faster meal service) and fewer employees getting to work is good for flight attendants too (because United will make more money, therefore they’ll grow, therefore they’ll hire more flight attendants). At United, less is the new more.
I wish airlines would say "we're doing this because it saves money". Just be honest.
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Old Nov 6, 2018, 2:12 pm
  #38  
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Old Nov 6, 2018, 2:39 pm
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Race to the bottom. Glad I am flying Lufthansa C next summer.
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Old Nov 6, 2018, 2:41 pm
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Didn't see that. Let's merge into that or close this.
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Old Nov 6, 2018, 2:41 pm
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Originally Posted by oskidunker
Race to the bottom. Glad I am flying Lufthansa C next summer.
Gary is notorious for this. It is just a change in service flow, will not amount to anything.
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Old Nov 6, 2018, 4:04 pm
  #42  
 
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"However, on the 787-8 and -9, American operates with one fewer Flight Attendant than United."

And there are 28 v. 36 J seats on the 787-8 and 30 v. 48 J seats on the 787-9. So yeah, it's almost like you need fewer FAs when you have fewer pax.
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Old Nov 6, 2018, 5:57 pm
  #43  
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I will say, I'm surprised at how the discussion has panned out so far here on FT. Some quick answers, apologies if I missed someone.

Originally Posted by fumje
Thank you for sharing this, but I am quite apprehensive about it. I can only picture a sad—or even sadder—state of affairs resulting.

As a passenger, Polaris service when introduced was a moderate improvement over the former BusinessFirst service. But even by last winter, it was slipping back, and by now I think we were better off with BF.

For FA's, do the unions not have any say in aircraft- or passenger-count-specific staffing levels? Service on the 77W is frantic already, and I appreciate how the FA's try to make do, but since they already seem one person short, I dread to think how it will go with one fewer.

Willing to bet that these 'key investors' do not regularly fly UA.
The 2012 Joint Agreement covers it to some extent. Full PDF is at https://unitedafa.org/contract/ -- A quick glance of page 58 shows that the minimum bid positions per fleet type closely mirror the FAA minimum crew. I've been told that negotiating higher minimum bid positions would have been immensely difficult, and would have cost quite a bit in terms of work rules.

There is currently a variable staffing model, where most widebodies will have 5/6 FAs in Polaris, and the variable staffing in the back is calculated with load factor triggers.

Originally Posted by EWR764
I wonder how many of these changes are influenced by the forthcoming 76L (46J 763 configuration)... that's a ton of J seats for a single 767 fwd galley, and if staffing is the same, it's going to be a pretty labor-intensive airplane to work. Couple that with short redeye sectors (eastbound LHR) and it's not surprising the company is looking for ways to accelerate the Polaris meal service.
The 76L is going to be a disaster, and I fully expect the 45th person (after the pilot rest seat is accounted for) to be served well after the 1st person is done with their entree and ready for desert -- no matter how fast you're going, there's just no way to serve that many people with the current service flow (even if the entrees are preplated)

Originally Posted by fumje
An actual FA could surely give better perspective, but from what I see the FAs do work very hard during the first two hours after takeoff and again somewhat in the hour before landing. In the middle of the flight there is not as much to do, but you can't 'surge-staff' the flight.
I won't do the whole plane, but here's what the eliminated premium position does every flight (in addition to safety checks/breifings/cabin coverage/etc):
  1. Prior to customer boarding, counts entrees in their galley and confirms special meal orders. (This is the only time that more food can be requested and realistically expected to show up in time for departure)
  2. During boarding, Checks for service items (3 tiered carts, glasses, mugs, plates, dessert cart setup, etc)
  3. Arranges ovens to accommodate the actual items needed to be cooked, including breads/nuts as well as plates/mugs (those are heated in an oven since they've sat in chilled carts for hours) -- the galley packing is currently horrid, and requires extensive rearranging or things will be inaccessible at times you need them.
  4. Sets ovens as the last thing prior to takeoff.
  5. Immediately after FAs get up, helps the two aisle FAs to set up their drink carts, passes them the nuts, linens, & hot towels.
  6. while aisle FAs are serving drinks, the galley is getting two appetizer carts ready with bread -- a good galley is also taking off the plastic covers from every part of the tray setup (as an aside, there's a ton of waste plastic every flight). Also helps by running out things the aisle FAs run out of (commonly, glasses) or don't have on the cart (chapagne flutes)
  7. When aisle FAs return with the drink cart and take appetizer/tray setup cart out, begin building the desert carts and have galley area ready for entree prep.
  8. Aisle FAs finish tray pass out, tray carts get broken down. Aisle Fas begin collecting appetizer dishes
  9. Plate all entrees for B Zone. Entree plating begins as soon as first row of that zone is ready (app dishes cleared out).
  10. As plating winds down, finish prepping for desert. have fudge and caramel warm, sundae toppings ready, and coffe and hot water in the carafes.
  11. Clean up the mess
Then, during the cruise part of the flight, the B zone galley coordinates pilot meals on some aircraft.

I'm much too lazy to type out the pre-arrival meal service, but the galley person is still very much the quarterback of that three person team. Also, only two or three of those steps are saved by pre-plated entrees. Someone still has to do all the other stuff.

Originally Posted by zymm
"However, on the 787-8 and -9, American operates with one fewer Flight Attendant than United."

And there are 28 v. 36 J seats on the 787-8 and 30 v. 48 J seats on the 787-9. So yeah, it's almost like you need fewer FAs when you have fewer pax.
What's the total load like? Also, there are some rumblings of those figures being cherry picked and not totally accurate information. I haven't flown AA in some time, so I can't tell.
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Old Nov 6, 2018, 9:14 pm
  #44  
 
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When customers say that they value sleep on board it means that they want better lie flat seats.

Only in America would airlines take "customers have told us that they value sleep when on board" and think "lets cheapen the dining experience to make the sleeping experience comparatively more enjoyable."
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Old Nov 7, 2018, 4:22 am
  #45  
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Originally Posted by fly18725
A lot of airlines use pre-plated entrees in C/J, including EK (all entrees), AA and DL (most dishes).

The bigger impact to pax is staffing. As noted, the relatively larger cabins on all aircraft and limited galley size, particularly on the 767, are influencing this change.
UA has been flying 767s internationally since they were acquired. It's only now that galley size is an issue?

Originally Posted by EWR764
I am not happy about the changes, but don't look at this as necessarily a cutback to the Polaris service. It's a bad thing because it's a reduction in staffing. I disagree categorically with inflight staffing cuts and think this move should be framed as such, which is a negative in its own right.
How can it be anything BUT a cutback to Polaris?
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