worldwidedreamer

I also wrote a letter and have not received a response. My operating assumption is that no decision has yet been made. In the for what it is worth department Delta grandfathered in its lifetime SkyClub members.

Mikey

I have emailed repeatedly. No response until I received a phone message stating that they are not ignoring me, but they are still looking at the issue. I will be calling back soon. This policy change stinks for lifers.

nsx

The United Club lifetime member situation is an example of a general principle I have tried to teach my family:

When you pay up front for services to be delivered far in the future with no further payment, the seller is likely to find ways to avoid delivering the promised services. Ways up to and including bankruptcy.

Insurance is somewhat different in that the company needs to keep selling its promises year after year. FF programs also have this characteristic. The company's self-interest prevents extreme abuse of customers.

United no longer sells lifetime memberships, so they don't lose future sales by breaking their promises to people who bought the memberships years ago. Unless the broader public hears about it.

honmani2

I'm also a UC life member after flying 3MM on UA over 30 years. Yesterday when accessing the LAS UC club, I was told that as of 11/1/19, I will no longer be able to access any UC club if I am on another airline.

What?!

I can almost understand if I buy an annual club pass and now I know that if I renew the pass, it comes with this new condition. But for those of us who endured 3MM butt-in-seat miles?

UA should at least give an exception to lifetime UA members, IMHO.

Same here. I switched to AS a few years ago after UA implemented changes that prompted my leaving. That said, having lifetime UC membership no longer means lifetime if it requires only UA travel.

I hope you're right. I just went into the LAS UC and the agent there told me about the policy change come November. And this is after I presented by lifetime UC card.

ctownflyer

UA will not be grandfathering in lifetime club members (though they did offer me a carve-out at my local UA club)

Accor took the same position recently with lifetime Fairmont accounts, but caved when I got lawyers involved. I guess we'll go down the same path here and see where it goes.
Amazing that UA is always happy to copy the bad of Delta but never their good.

nomad420

Interesting I thought someone said they WERE going to grandfathering in LT million miller members. How are you a LT UC member? Miles? I like the local "carve-out" great people in CLE club.

wxguy

Anyone out there get their LT UC the same way I did? I have no recollection at all what was promised at the time! I bought it in ~1990 with 100,000 EA miles (Ionosphere Club). When ONEpass was created, it was absorbed into the CO Presidents Club network. Then with the UA merger, it became a LT Red Carpet Club and finally United Club membership. No complaints -- I've certainly gotten my miles' worth over 30 years!

worldwidedreamer

soartoday

Thanks for pursuing. I'm with you on fighting this to November and beyond.

Fredd

What I haven't seen mentioned here is the failure of two separate lawsuits against UA brought by "lifetime" members of Silver Wings.

I was one of two named plaintiffs in the first of the suits. We lost because we could not come up with any paperwork documenting the T&Cs of our original signup. The onus was on us rather than UA. Ironically, I finally found my old Silver Wings membership card just a few months ago, but even that didn't include T&Cs so I doubt it would have made a difference in the outcome.

In a subsequent suit, summary judgment was granted against the plaintiff. My last post on the topic is here.

Gary Leff wrote about the second suit here. He also went back to the Million-Mile-Flyer suit to quote two judges' colloquy with a UA lawyer:

I have no idea if those judgments have any relevance to the lifetime club memberships but bring this up FWIW. I do wish the affected lifetime members well. I can empathize.

ctownflyer

Paid cash for it to CO in 2007.

I'm told this is UA's final decision after researching the issue for the past 5 months since I brought it to their attention.

Do we have any lawyers that are lifetime club members?

​​​​​​​I don't think I ever got any paperwork from CO.

One thing in our favor is that the paid club membership had nothing to due with flying, We were allowed to access the club at any time, even if not flying.
The deregulation act shielded UA from other lawsuits that had to do with flying, but I would think this falls outside of that scope.

HNLbasedFlyer

Yeah, UA is very emboldened not losing any of the "lifetime" suits - and they'll simply argue in this case the members still have lifetime status, but access rules are changing - and they'll claim T's and C's allow them to do that. I think the CO paid memberships will need to show T's and C's that grant unlimited access for any reason and CO not having a right to make modifications to the agreement. Then again, November is still a long way away.

I think the bigger shoe that may drop in the future, and I think a decent possibility, is the 2MM fliers who got lifetime UC like myself get it revoked.....

Xyzzy

I bought a lifetime membership from CO. I don't recall getting any paperwork. It was an on-line purchase and I know I didn't print whatever T&C that were displayed n the web site.

ctownflyer

The reason they won those suits was because of shielding from the deregulation act. We'll need to consult with lawyers, but there's a decent chance that a paid club membership that did not require any flight may not enjoy that protection.

UA may want to settle quickly if we can pierce that, as they don't want to set a precedent that can wind up hurting them in other cases down the road.

Same as my recollection. I have an email receipt for the purchase from 9/19/07, but that's it. Does anyone recall getting terms for their purchase?

lincolnjkc

I'm not a lawyer, but given previous holdings on the ADA and the broad preemption language "...may not enact or enforce a law, regulation, or other provision having the force and effect of law related to a [...] service of an air carrier that may provide air transportation under this subpart." (49 USC 41713(b)(1) and (b)(4)(A))

I think it's pretty tough, especially in light of previous holdings on the ADA to argue that the Clubs aren't a "service" of an air carrier -- its not inconceivable that the "service" at play here can be distinguished from the "service" in, e.g., American v. Wollens -- but it doesn't seem like it's that easy of a distinction to make -- both the FQTV program and Club are clearly ancillary services that aren't intrinsic to the basic air transportation. A further nail, from my perspective, is that Wollens cites Morales v. TWA as "...defin[ing] the 'relating to' language in the ADA preemption clause as 'having a connection with or reference to airline `rates, routes, or services'."

Clearly the primary purpose of the clubs is to attract/retain and make comfortable certain customers of the airline service and I think that would pull it in to the "relating to..." preemption language in that it has a connection with and reference to the airline services. (The fact that UA has been requiring a BP on any airline for the past couple years would seem to strengthen that relationship, IMO)

Not that I agree with the "lifetime isn't lifetime" posture (and I really don't like the move for the couple times a year I can't fly UA for whatever reason) but I don't think getting around the ADA is likely to be a successful endeavor.