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Club member/one-time pass access changes Nov 1, 2019 (same day BP on UA or partner)

Club member/one-time pass access changes Nov 1, 2019 (same day BP on UA or partner)

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Old Apr 12, 19, 5:51 pm   -   Wikipost
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If you paid cash for a lifetime Club membership and would like to join a potential class action due to this material change, please post your username here:
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If you received a lifetime Club membership from the UA MM program and would like to join a potential class action, please post your username here:
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Old Mar 9, 19, 10:17 pm
  #301  
nsx
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It's sad when a company's management chooses to break its promise to customers, especially when keeping the promise would be so easy and inexpensive. If there's a lawsuit I predict that only the lawyers will win.

United had ranked high, right up near Southwest and Alaska, in my perception of how they treated customers. No longer. They are cheating me out of a benefit I paid serious money for, and I won't forget.
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Old Mar 9, 19, 10:24 pm
  #302  
 
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Originally Posted by ctownflyer View Post
Except that when we bought CO Lifetime memberships there was zero requirement for any boarding pass and if you were not flying, CO would issue a gate pass so that you could use the lounge at any time.

A frequent flyer program involves miles earned from travel. A Club that is accessible regardless of if you are flying is very different.

GG Check Point line 53 even lived on post merger for several years, making it clear that club members did not have to be flying:
My point, though, is that the club is a "service" of "of an air carrier that may provide air transportation under this subpart" and the preemption language is broad and doesn't restrict itself to cases where the service is exclusively related to air travel. The fact that it is/was possible to use the club without actually traveling doesn't change the fact that the Clubs act as an adjunct to the airline and the core service (transportation), not a distinct and unrelated offering.

After I posted the previous reply I thought of another case that highlights that the Club "service" is generally related to the airline's services: United doesn't operate any clubs at locations it doesn't serve. If United operated clubs at offline stations (for sake of over-the-top example, a UC at LGB or ULN) or non-transportation locations, such as the local mall, it would help to make the argument that the clubs are wholly unrelated to the airline's rates, routes, or services -- but there are no permanent UC locations in places not served by UA.

Reading Wolens further appears to confirm that breach of contract claims are not per se barred by the ADA (and rejects the notion that something "not essential" to aviation would fall outside of the ADA's preemption), but looking at the rules posted on CO's site as of February 2007 [random date] but has the typical escape clause:

Continental reserves the right to restrict, alter or modify the fees, benefits, services and clubroom locations at any time with or without written notice to its members.
Continental reserves the right to revoke membership privileges of those who fail to comply with the above guidelines and/or disrupt other members.
While I can't find any lifetime terms (the signup is behind a OnePass login which obviously doesn't go anywhere useful--and I went back to 1999 trying to find anything useful), I would find it hard to believe if that language was in the 'generic' rules and regs it wasn't also in the lifetime rules and regs.

Of course its possible that this specific application of the rule is in some way unconscionable, but that doesn't avoid the ADA's preemption which kicks the court costs up, and based on the outcome from the Silver Wings litigation that seems like a rather tenuous argument.

But again, I'm not a lawyer
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Old Mar 9, 19, 10:28 pm
  #303  
 
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Originally Posted by lincolnjkc View Post
Reading Wolens further appears to confirm that breach of contract claims are not per se barred by the ADA (and rejects the notion that something "not essential" to aviation would fall outside of the ADA's preemption), but looking at the rules posted on CO's site as of February 2007 [random date] but has the typical escape clause:

But again, I'm not a lawyer
How is that not an illusory contract?
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Old Mar 10, 19, 12:58 am
  #304  
 
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Originally Posted by ctownflyer View Post
How is that not an illusory contract?
Because you still have a membership and you can still use the club. If they make a reasonable effort that you can use the club, the barrier for you to succeed is more challenging. Just saying.

Reasonable can always be defined by a court - but UA has proved to have deep pockets in lifetime litigation. They'll say, buy a ticket on UA, fly that day, and you are more than welcome to enter.
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Old Mar 10, 19, 3:57 am
  #305  
 
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Originally Posted by lincolnjkc View Post
After I posted the previous reply I thought of another case that highlights that the Club "service" is generally related to the airline's services: United doesn't operate any clubs at locations it doesn't serve. If United operated clubs at offline stations (for sake of over-the-top example, a UC at LGB or ULN) or non-transportation locations, such as the local mall, it would help to make the argument that the clubs are wholly unrelated to the airline's rates, routes, or services -- but there are no permanent UC locations in places not served by UA.
What about the Amtrak lounges with heavy United branding?
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Old Mar 10, 19, 7:17 am
  #306  
 
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Originally Posted by soartoday View Post
What about the Amtrak lounges with heavy United branding?
I haven't seen one of these first hand but I would presume that, (a) these are operated by Amtrak and not United, and (b) these only exist at locations with UA codeshare service [e.g. the northeast corridor] so it would still be closely related to the provision of transportation.
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Old Mar 10, 19, 8:48 am
  #307  
 
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Originally Posted by HNLbasedFlyer View Post
Because you still have a membership and you can still use the club. If they make a reasonable effort that you can use the club, the barrier for you to succeed is more challenging. Just saying.

Reasonable can always be defined by a court - but UA has proved to have deep pockets in lifetime litigation. They'll say, buy a ticket on UA, fly that day, and you are more than welcome to enter.
Where does it end?

First they started requiring boarding passes, now they'll require *A boarding passes.
Will they next restrict lounge access on basic economy or low fare class tickets?

A contract term that says we can do whatever we want is not likely to be enforceable.
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Old Mar 10, 19, 8:55 am
  #308  
 
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Originally Posted by ctownflyer View Post
A contract term that says we can do whatever we want is not likely to be enforceable.
It's been tested in court and worked successfully for UA in no fewer than three Million-Miler and Silver Wings lawsuits.

I hope you lifetime club members can find a way to prevail.
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Old Mar 10, 19, 10:54 am
  #309  
 
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Originally Posted by Fredd View Post
It's been tested in court and worked successfully for UA in no fewer than three Million-Miler and Silver Wings lawsuits.

I hope you lifetime club members can find a way to prevail.
Weren't those defeated by the deregulation act? I guess it would come down to whether clubs that didn't require flying are protected by the ADA.
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Old Mar 10, 19, 11:33 am
  #310  
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Originally Posted by ctownflyer View Post
Will they next restrict lounge access on basic economy or low fare class tickets?
They should pay you if you're going to give them ideas like that!
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Old Mar 10, 19, 11:37 am
  #311  
 
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Originally Posted by ctownflyer View Post
Weren't those defeated by the deregulation act? I guess it would come down to whether clubs that didn't require flying are protected by the ADA.
IIRC US prevailed in the Silver Wings lawsuits on its right to determine and change terms and conditions, and our inability (in the first lawsuit in which I was a named plaintiff) to produce a written contract (this for something we signed up for online!). I don't know that airline deregulation per se was an issue.

The somewhat sympathetic appeals court judges in the Million-Miler suit opined that any relief would have to come from the DOT, which states on its own website that "Airlines have wide discretion to change the terms of their frequent flyer programs, but are required to disclose their frequent flyer program rules in their customer service plan and must adhere to any promises made in their customer service plan."

I'm not a lawyer, and I'd be pleased if a distinction like the one you describe between a "club" and "flying" could be drawn. I'm pessimistic but I'll certainly be cheering you on from the sidelines.

Last edited by Fredd; Mar 10, 19 at 11:48 am Reason: details re lawsuit added
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Old Mar 10, 19, 11:46 am
  #312  
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How lifetime United Club members feel:

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Old Mar 12, 19, 6:55 am
  #313  
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Goodbye United Club Membership - You are Not Worth It.

For the first time in years, I am not renewing my UC membership. I'm tired of:

1) Overcrowded UC's (even during non-peak hours / travel dates).
2) Inconsistent and junky snack selections.
3) Long lines to see the UC CS agents.
4) Crowded business centers in the UC's when I really need them

This has been more and more the case lately, and I don't feel it's worth the $450 / 70K miles, and cannot justify renewing the service (even though I would use it 40+ times a year. I have even recommended directly to UA that they increase the price and exclusivity of the UC's to reduce the aforementioned complaints (and that I was willing to literally pay double to consistently not have these concerns).

Now that I'm 1MM and fly mostly int'l on UA, I will have access at least to the UC and sometimes the Polaris lounge at all times for the rest of my life.... no need to continue with a membership.
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Old Mar 14, 19, 12:14 pm
  #314  
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It's pretty darned easy for UA to just do the right thing here WRT lifetime members. Why it seems that they are apparently nt is beyond me. This really shouldn't require a lawsuit. It's really not a big thing. It's not even hard to understand. It doesn't even affect that many people. <sigh>
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Old Apr 4, 19, 6:48 pm
  #315  
 
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How come no UA Lurker has said anything?
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