Denied boarding at KTM by Air India on UA ticket ("new" India dual transit rules)
Oct 30, 2018, 2:56 am
#61
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This is the page on the AI website that I based my final decision that a visa was not required. My intra-India flight was AI102, which is one of those “international” domestic flights. That flight actually operates DEL-BOM-NYC. Having the DEL-BOM segment operate as “international”, means that whether a passenger boards at DEL or BOM, they go through passport control at their originating airport, since the flight departs from an international gate at DEL and arrives at and departs from an international gate at BOM. In my case, that meant that, per instructions on that page, when I arrived at DEL from KTM as an international passenger, I would proceed straight to the gate for AI102, staying in the international section of the terminal and never passing immigration and customs (as stated twice on that page). Similarly, again as per statements on that page, when I would have arrived at BOM I would have done so at an international gate, and then I would have proceeded to the international gate for AC47, again bypassing immigration and customs. If I never crossed an immigration line at DEL or BOM, I would have never officially “entered” the country, no immigration officer would have ever looked at my passport, so no visa would ever get checked. The information given on that page, while not directly addressing a scenario where this transit process takes place twice, clearly says that I should not even attempt to pass through immigration:
I interpreted the “we’re sorry but the policy changed 5 days ago” statement of the AI agent at KTM as of 6 days prior I would have been able to complete this transit process through India without a visa (meaning my original interpretation of the referenced AI page was correct), but based on the policy change, dual transit scenarios such as mine were no longer allowed without a visa. This still doesn’t make sense to me, especially based on the instructions still in place on the AI page, since I would have never interacted with an immigration officer, and therefore they’d have no knowledge whether I was going through with a visa or not. The only place that could be enforced would be by the airline at the original embarkation point, which is what happened in my case. To save the potential naysayers the trouble, I understand that it’s possible that AI has not updated that page yet. But FWIW, I still have have not been able to find anything online that references such a policy change.
One final point is that I did not “construct” that itinerary. When I was trying to find business saver award space for my return trip to PHX, that was actually the best option provided to me by the UA booking engine when I searched for KTM-PHX space. All other options available at the time had risky connections, or overnight stays either at CTU (which I ended up being stuck with anyway), or some other Asian airport. The KTM-DEL-BOM-YYZ-PHX option was the only one available at the time that did not require an overnight stop. Some people suggested I should have returned through IST; that’s actually how I got to KTM but when that return option showed up on occasion, it involved a 60 minute layover at IST which was too risky in my book (I’ve flown through KTM enough over the years to know that hardly any flights depart on time). I’m only stating this as a response to a couple of folks that indirectly said that I “created” this itinerary and therefore “created” my own problem.
Thanks for the link.
I was in Nepal to do a charity trek to EBC with 4 friends. It included 2 nights before and after in Kathmandu. We all made it all the way up on the trek! Thanks for asking.
- You are not allowed to proceed or pass through immigration and Customs unless you fulfil other requisite criteria.
I interpreted the “we’re sorry but the policy changed 5 days ago” statement of the AI agent at KTM as of 6 days prior I would have been able to complete this transit process through India without a visa (meaning my original interpretation of the referenced AI page was correct), but based on the policy change, dual transit scenarios such as mine were no longer allowed without a visa. This still doesn’t make sense to me, especially based on the instructions still in place on the AI page, since I would have never interacted with an immigration officer, and therefore they’d have no knowledge whether I was going through with a visa or not. The only place that could be enforced would be by the airline at the original embarkation point, which is what happened in my case. To save the potential naysayers the trouble, I understand that it’s possible that AI has not updated that page yet. But FWIW, I still have have not been able to find anything online that references such a policy change.
One final point is that I did not “construct” that itinerary. When I was trying to find business saver award space for my return trip to PHX, that was actually the best option provided to me by the UA booking engine when I searched for KTM-PHX space. All other options available at the time had risky connections, or overnight stays either at CTU (which I ended up being stuck with anyway), or some other Asian airport. The KTM-DEL-BOM-YYZ-PHX option was the only one available at the time that did not require an overnight stop. Some people suggested I should have returned through IST; that’s actually how I got to KTM but when that return option showed up on occasion, it involved a 60 minute layover at IST which was too risky in my book (I’ve flown through KTM enough over the years to know that hardly any flights depart on time). I’m only stating this as a response to a couple of folks that indirectly said that I “created” this itinerary and therefore “created” my own problem.
I posted a link to this post from the India based airlines forum, as a PSA.
Other than this, how was KTM?
Other than this, how was KTM?
I was in Nepal to do a charity trek to EBC with 4 friends. It included 2 nights before and after in Kathmandu. We all made it all the way up on the trek! Thanks for asking.
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Oct 30, 2018 at 4:06 pm Reason: merging consecutive posts by same member
Oct 30, 2018, 7:35 am
#62
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Gl with getting mileage redeposited - did you contact the M+ service center as someone suggested?
Oct 30, 2018, 8:20 am
#63
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This is the page on the AI website that I based my final decision that a visa was not required. My intra-India flight was AI102, which is one of those “international” domestic flights. That flight actually operates DEL-BOM-NYC. Having the DEL-BOM segment operate as “international”, means that whether a passenger boards at DEL or BOM, they go through passport control at their originating airport, since the flight departs from an international gate at DEL and arrives at and departs from an international gate at BOM. In my case, that meant that, per instructions on that page, when I arrived at DEL from KTM as an international passenger, I would proceed straight to the gate for AI102, staying in the international section of the terminal and never passing immigration and customs (as stated twice on that page). Similarly, again as per statements on that page, when I would have arrived at BOM I would have done so at an international gate, and then I would have proceeded to the international gate for AC47, again bypassing immigration and customs. If I never crossed an immigration line at DEL or BOM, I would have never officially “entered” the country, no immigration officer would have ever looked at my passport, so no visa would ever get checked. The information given on that page, while not directly addressing a scenario where this transit process takes place twice, clearly says that I should not even attempt to pass through immigration:
I interpreted the “we’re sorry but the policy changed 5 days ago” statement of the AI agent at KTM as of 6 days prior I would have been able to complete this transit process through India without a visa (meaning my original interpretation of the referenced AI page was correct), but based on the policy change, dual transit scenarios such as mine were no longer allowed without a visa. This still doesn’t make sense to me, especially based on the instructions still in place on the AI page, since I would have never interacted with an immigration officer, and therefore they’d have no knowledge whether I was going through with a visa or not. The only place that could be enforced would be by the airline at the original embarkation point, which is what happened in my case. To save the potential naysayers the trouble, I understand that it’s possible that AI has not updated that page yet. But FWIW, I still have have not been able to find anything online that references such a policy change.
- You are not allowed to proceed or pass through immigration and Customs unless you fulfil other requisite criteria.
I interpreted the “we’re sorry but the policy changed 5 days ago” statement of the AI agent at KTM as of 6 days prior I would have been able to complete this transit process through India without a visa (meaning my original interpretation of the referenced AI page was correct), but based on the policy change, dual transit scenarios such as mine were no longer allowed without a visa. This still doesn’t make sense to me, especially based on the instructions still in place on the AI page, since I would have never interacted with an immigration officer, and therefore they’d have no knowledge whether I was going through with a visa or not. The only place that could be enforced would be by the airline at the original embarkation point, which is what happened in my case. To save the potential naysayers the trouble, I understand that it’s possible that AI has not updated that page yet. But FWIW, I still have have not been able to find anything online that references such a policy change.
Oct 30, 2018, 9:33 am
#64
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,632
having taken many domestic flights in india that go through the international terminal (including the ai flight you are referring to), i can understand why they are disallowing this....it is very easy for someone to enter the country without a visa since you don't have to go through passport control to exit from one of these flights....once you get of the plane you can simply walk up to the immigration area where there is a separate exit for passengers on one of these flights....they simply scan your boarding pass & allow you though....
If dom+int flights were a significant security risk, then they would be canceled altogether. That's not what's happening, only double transits w/o visa are being disallowed
The double transit w/o visa is a different kind of risk. Let's say you are flying JFK-DEL-BOM (single transit) and expecting to do immigration in BOM. If DEL-BOM is canceled for any reason, you can get your immigration processing done in DEL (since you do have a visa) and take a domestic flight. But the OP would not have that option and would have NO way to get to BOM. So I can see why the rule change was made. As others have said, these things happen...I mean, you turn up at the border with your child hoping to get asylum, and instead they take your baby away from you, so sorry, rule change.
Oct 30, 2018, 9:42 am
#65
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It's crazy to berate OP for ticketing a routing which was permissible without a visa when booked and following a process which exists elsewhere in the world.
The rules were then changed by the Indian government and that is the end of the discussion. Whether India did this for good or bad reasons is irrelevant to the underlying question of whether AI or UA are responsible. They are not.
The rules were then changed by the Indian government and that is the end of the discussion. Whether India did this for good or bad reasons is irrelevant to the underlying question of whether AI or UA are responsible. They are not.
Oct 30, 2018, 10:35 am
#66
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It's crazy to berate OP for ticketing a routing which was permissible without a visa when booked and following a process which exists elsewhere in the world.
The rules were then changed by the Indian government and that is the end of the discussion. Whether India did this for good or bad reasons is irrelevant to the underlying question of whether AI or UA are responsible. They are not.
The rules were then changed by the Indian government and that is the end of the discussion. Whether India did this for good or bad reasons is irrelevant to the underlying question of whether AI or UA are responsible. They are not.
Oct 30, 2018, 10:51 am
#67
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You can't avoid immigration that way, Indian immigration isn't that stupid. The boarding pass indicates whether you need to pass immigration or not.
If dom+int flights were a significant security risk, then they would be canceled altogether. That's not what's happening, only double transits w/o visa are being disallowed
If dom+int flights were a significant security risk, then they would be canceled altogether. That's not what's happening, only double transits w/o visa are being disallowed
The double transit w/o visa is a different kind of risk. Let's say you are flying JFK-DEL-BOM (single transit) and expecting to do immigration in BOM. If DEL-BOM is canceled for any reason, you can get your immigration processing done in DEL (since you do have a visa) and take a domestic flight. But the OP would not have that option and would have NO way to get to BOM. So I can see why the rule change was made. As others have said, these things happen...I mean, you turn up at the border with your child hoping to get asylum, and instead they take your baby away from you, so sorry, rule change.
now take for example someone trying to sneak into the country on the route the op was flying....what would stop that person from flying ktm-del followed by del-bom without a visa & then instead of boarding the bom-yyz flight, this person decides to walk out of the airport by going through the immigration counter that simply stamps your boarding pass & doesn't check your passport....
i believe both risks (& maybe other factors) are the reason this has now been disallowed....
Oct 30, 2018, 11:03 am
#68
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its not the fact that indian immigration is stupid....up till fairly recently they used to simply stamp your boarding pass (without scanning) & let you through via a counter that did not check your passport....what would have stopped someone in the op's position to simply pass by this counter without having a visa????del just recently started scanning the boarding passes, i don't remember that happening at bom (unless they started it very recently)....they still just stamp the boarding pass & let you through....double transits expose the risk of someone being able to enter the country without a visa....this is probably one of the reasons why double transit without a visa has now been disallowed....
i agree that this type of risk exists but i believe there are 4 flights daily between these routes that fly from the international terminal so if one flight was cancelled then the op would definitely have a way of getting to bom....there would just be a wait in the transit area....
now take for example someone trying to sneak into the country on the route the op was flying....what would stop that person from flying ktm-del followed by del-bom without a visa & then instead of boarding the bom-yyz flight, this person decides to walk out of the airport by going through the immigration counter that simply stamps your boarding pass & doesn't check your passport....
i believe both risks (& maybe other factors) are the reason this has now been disallowed....
i agree that this type of risk exists but i believe there are 4 flights daily between these routes that fly from the international terminal so if one flight was cancelled then the op would definitely have a way of getting to bom....there would just be a wait in the transit area....
now take for example someone trying to sneak into the country on the route the op was flying....what would stop that person from flying ktm-del followed by del-bom without a visa & then instead of boarding the bom-yyz flight, this person decides to walk out of the airport by going through the immigration counter that simply stamps your boarding pass & doesn't check your passport....
i believe both risks (& maybe other factors) are the reason this has now been disallowed....
Oct 30, 2018, 11:50 am
#69
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If the OP would've flown to DEL as initially suggested he would have been OK. In case of issues, there are tons of international connections available for rebooking from DEL so not making it to BOM would not be a problem at all. There's a hotel and sleeper rooms in the international terminal as well.
Oct 30, 2018, 12:00 pm
#70
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the very large letter 'd' is on all boarding passes for people taking a domestic flight from the international terminal....this is what allows you to pass through the immigration counter without checking your passport....not sure what type of boarding pass the op would have gotten at ktm for the del-bom sector as i've never flown this route....
Oct 30, 2018, 1:41 pm
#71
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So here’s how I see things:
1. Airlines will sell you tickets on no matter what route you want to take. How does it matter to them? Nobody owes you any compensation here for anything
2. Traveling through any country without a visa is asking for trouble. Now had you been on a single flight # for KTM-DEL-BOM that would be different. But changing flights that’s just asking for trouble. Unless the country has a transit visa-on-arrival facility or visa waiver for your passport that’s a definite no-no.
3. I don’t think there were any dual transit laws nor have they been scrapped in the last few days. Someone made up a nice story there.
4. All the links you’ve shared for AI do not in any way cover what you were trying to do.
5. Hope you enjoyed KTM and sorry you had to go through all that
1. Airlines will sell you tickets on no matter what route you want to take. How does it matter to them? Nobody owes you any compensation here for anything
2. Traveling through any country without a visa is asking for trouble. Now had you been on a single flight # for KTM-DEL-BOM that would be different. But changing flights that’s just asking for trouble. Unless the country has a transit visa-on-arrival facility or visa waiver for your passport that’s a definite no-no.
3. I don’t think there were any dual transit laws nor have they been scrapped in the last few days. Someone made up a nice story there.
4. All the links you’ve shared for AI do not in any way cover what you were trying to do.
5. Hope you enjoyed KTM and sorry you had to go through all that
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Oct 30, 2018 at 4:09 pm Reason: Discuss the issues, not the poster(s)
Oct 30, 2018, 2:04 pm
#72
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the very large letter 'd' is on all boarding passes for people taking a domestic flight from the international terminal....this is what allows you to pass through the immigration counter without checking your passport....not sure what type of boarding pass the op would have gotten at ktm for the del-bom sector as i've never flown this route....
Oct 30, 2018, 2:05 pm
#73
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the very large letter 'd' is on all boarding passes for people taking a domestic flight from the international terminal....this is what allows you to pass through the immigration counter without checking your passport....not sure what type of boarding pass the op would have gotten at ktm for the del-bom sector as i've never flown this route....
AI website says a big T is printed on boarding pass instead of D for transit pax on these flights. Maybe someone who has been on one of these (DOM-DOM-INTL) can clarify.
Also, if I'm not mistaken Bangalore airport was planning to launch biometric boarding passes and also saw news of plans to stop boarding pass stamping/allow mobile boarding passes - so it only makes sense to have these additional safeguards.
Last edited by Acid; Oct 30, 2018 at 2:11 pm
Oct 30, 2018, 2:07 pm
#74
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I agree with Keyser. I've been on the domestic legs of these INTL connectors (i.e. just GOI-BOM and DEL-BOM) and none in our group (Indian and non-Indians/Non-OCI's) were ever asked for passport or any domestic ID while exiting at BOM.
AI website says a big T is printed on boarding pass instead of D for transit pax on these flights. Maybe someone who has been on one of these (DOM-DOM-INTL) can clarify.
Also, if I'm not mistaken Bangalore airport was planning to launch biometric boarding passes and also saw news of India planning to launch and also plans to stop boarding pass stamping/allow mobile boarding passes - so it only makes sense to have these additional safeguards.
AI website says a big T is printed on boarding pass instead of D for transit pax on these flights. Maybe someone who has been on one of these (DOM-DOM-INTL) can clarify.
Also, if I'm not mistaken Bangalore airport was planning to launch biometric boarding passes and also saw news of India planning to launch and also plans to stop boarding pass stamping/allow mobile boarding passes - so it only makes sense to have these additional safeguards.
Oct 30, 2018, 2:22 pm
#75
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I truly felt I deserved compensation based on my lack of knowledge on what the airline is required to communicate to me as a passenger. At the start of the thread I truly thought UA or AI were supposed to communicate that policy change to me, and the result of that lack of communication was that I was stuck finding my own way back home. I have since been bashed enough to know that the airlines are not required to communicate such changes to me (and that it’s my responsibility to keep abreast of such changes), so I no longer have any expectation of compensation for my troubles. Maybe I’m reading too much into some of the comments, but at no point was I in this to milk money or miles out of UA. I truly believed that they were at fault and the result was a pretty miserable return experience and extra costs for me. I now know they weren’t at fault.
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Oct 30, 2018 at 4:10 pm Reason: removed response to deleted content