Denied boarding at KTM by Air India on UA ticket ("new" India dual transit rules)
Oct 29, 2018, 2:10 pm
#46
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Apologies that this has dragged on this long. I had tried to post a comment when there was only 7-10 posts but my browser froze and it was 2am in my time zone and I wanted to go to bed so I din't check to see if the post made it through (turns out it didn't). That post was basically saying that enough people had commented on my lack of knowledge on who has the responsibility in case of visa policy changes. It only took a few early comments for me to learn that lesson that I can't expect notification or compensation from AI or UA for visa policy changes. But the blame kept pilling on (maybe some folks commented without reading the full thread and didn't realize I had been pummeled enough already on the topic). I am glad to see that I got a bit of empathy from some folks who realized that most of us would not catch such policy changes so close to travel.
For what it's worth, neither the AI check in agent at KTM nor the UA FB team made any mention of that responsibility nor that it was mine to bear (so I stayed in the dark as to that point until my post here). The AI agent at KTM was actually apologetic for the fact that the change had just recently happened and there was no prior notice (he said it was "5 days ago", so I'm guessing that meant calendar days vs business days, per an earlier question), but he correctly stated that AI wasn't responsible to make other arrangements for me. I am not sure why the offer to fly to DEL was withdrawn, but I am not sure I would've felt comfortable taking it, as he mentioned twice that the information he got from the station managers in India was that Indian immigration was being strict about this change. The UA FB team offered to try and help but again said nothing about the responsibility being mine, which combined with my lack of knowledge on the subject, reinforced my original (erroneous) assumption that AI/UA should have notified me.
I guess as of now my expectation is to get the miles redeposited (not sure why the FB team told me the reservation was canceled when it wasn't) and to hopefully have the redeposit fee waived ($100 for PS). It's still strange that the FB team also said they couldn't see the award space that I was able to book and use. I would assume that if they had been able to see it and change the existing reservation, I wouldn't have needed to pay the close-in award booking fee ($50 for PS). Maybe if I'm lucky they'll waive that too.
Thanks to all who contributed to the discussion. If it helps someone down the line, maybe it was worth all our time.
For what it's worth, neither the AI check in agent at KTM nor the UA FB team made any mention of that responsibility nor that it was mine to bear (so I stayed in the dark as to that point until my post here). The AI agent at KTM was actually apologetic for the fact that the change had just recently happened and there was no prior notice (he said it was "5 days ago", so I'm guessing that meant calendar days vs business days, per an earlier question), but he correctly stated that AI wasn't responsible to make other arrangements for me. I am not sure why the offer to fly to DEL was withdrawn, but I am not sure I would've felt comfortable taking it, as he mentioned twice that the information he got from the station managers in India was that Indian immigration was being strict about this change. The UA FB team offered to try and help but again said nothing about the responsibility being mine, which combined with my lack of knowledge on the subject, reinforced my original (erroneous) assumption that AI/UA should have notified me.
I guess as of now my expectation is to get the miles redeposited (not sure why the FB team told me the reservation was canceled when it wasn't) and to hopefully have the redeposit fee waived ($100 for PS). It's still strange that the FB team also said they couldn't see the award space that I was able to book and use. I would assume that if they had been able to see it and change the existing reservation, I wouldn't have needed to pay the close-in award booking fee ($50 for PS). Maybe if I'm lucky they'll waive that too.
Thanks to all who contributed to the discussion. If it helps someone down the line, maybe it was worth all our time.
I've been through some uncertain visa / passport situations and know that it can be very difficult to understand and keep abreast of all the rules. Sometimes even the passport control agents have trouble figuring it out!
With all of this discussion, have you independently verified that there is indeed a rule that means you were not permitted to travel your booked itinerary? If so, it's a tough lesson to learn, but if it's not clear-cut I would say you should still be arguing the point.
Oct 29, 2018, 2:12 pm
#47
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Apologies that this has dragged on this long. I had tried to post a comment when there was only 7-10 posts but my browser froze and it was 2am in my time zone and I wanted to go to bed so I din't check to see if the post made it through (turns out it didn't). That post was basically saying that enough people had commented on my lack of knowledge on who has the responsibility in case of visa policy changes. It only took a few early comments for me to learn that lesson that I can't expect notification or compensation from AI or UA for visa policy changes. But the blame kept pilling on (maybe some folks commented without reading the full thread and didn't realize I had been pummeled enough already on the topic). I am glad to see that I got a bit of empathy from some folks who realized that most of us would not catch such policy changes so close to travel.
For what it's worth, neither the AI check in agent at KTM nor the UA FB team made any mention of that responsibility nor that it was mine to bear (so I stayed in the dark as to that point until my post here). The AI agent at KTM was actually apologetic for the fact that the change had just recently happened and there was no prior notice (he said it was "5 days ago", so I'm guessing that meant calendar days vs business days, per an earlier question), but he correctly stated that AI wasn't responsible to make other arrangements for me. I am not sure why the offer to fly to DEL was withdrawn, but I am not sure I would've felt comfortable taking it, as he mentioned twice that the information he got from the station managers in India was that Indian immigration was being strict about this change. The UA FB team offered to try and help but again said nothing about the responsibility being mine, which combined with my lack of knowledge on the subject, reinforced my original (erroneous) assumption that AI/UA should have notified me.
I guess as of now my expectation is to get the miles redeposited (not sure why the FB team told me the reservation was canceled when it wasn't) and to hopefully have the redeposit fee waived ($100 for PS). It's still strange that the FB team also said they couldn't see the award space that I was able to book and use. I would assume that if they had been able to see it and change the existing reservation, I wouldn't have needed to pay the close-in award booking fee ($50 for PS). Maybe if I'm lucky they'll waive that too.
Thanks to all who contributed to the discussion. If it helps someone down the line, maybe it was worth all our time.
For what it's worth, neither the AI check in agent at KTM nor the UA FB team made any mention of that responsibility nor that it was mine to bear (so I stayed in the dark as to that point until my post here). The AI agent at KTM was actually apologetic for the fact that the change had just recently happened and there was no prior notice (he said it was "5 days ago", so I'm guessing that meant calendar days vs business days, per an earlier question), but he correctly stated that AI wasn't responsible to make other arrangements for me. I am not sure why the offer to fly to DEL was withdrawn, but I am not sure I would've felt comfortable taking it, as he mentioned twice that the information he got from the station managers in India was that Indian immigration was being strict about this change. The UA FB team offered to try and help but again said nothing about the responsibility being mine, which combined with my lack of knowledge on the subject, reinforced my original (erroneous) assumption that AI/UA should have notified me.
I guess as of now my expectation is to get the miles redeposited (not sure why the FB team told me the reservation was canceled when it wasn't) and to hopefully have the redeposit fee waived ($100 for PS). It's still strange that the FB team also said they couldn't see the award space that I was able to book and use. I would assume that if they had been able to see it and change the existing reservation, I wouldn't have needed to pay the close-in award booking fee ($50 for PS). Maybe if I'm lucky they'll waive that too.
Thanks to all who contributed to the discussion. If it helps someone down the line, maybe it was worth all our time.
Oct 29, 2018, 2:22 pm
#48
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Note for other FTers, most of us would also be caught short if immigration regs changed in the middle of a trip.
The finger-wagging is a tad precious.
I am flying to RGN on dec 7, then Malaysia on the 11th. If MY began requiring a visa, I would have some choice 4 letter words for those reminding me of my singular responsibility with short notice beforehand. Please though, don't let me get in the way of pedantry.
The finger-wagging is a tad precious.
I am flying to RGN on dec 7, then Malaysia on the 11th. If MY began requiring a visa, I would have some choice 4 letter words for those reminding me of my singular responsibility with short notice beforehand. Please though, don't let me get in the way of pedantry.
Apologies that this has dragged on this long. I had tried to post a comment when there was only 7-10 posts but my browser froze and it was 2am in my time zone and I wanted to go to bed so I din't check to see if the post made it through (turns out it didn't). That post was basically saying that enough people had commented on my lack of knowledge on who has the responsibility in case of visa policy changes. It only took a few early comments for me to learn that lesson that I can't expect notification or compensation from AI or UA for visa policy changes. But the blame kept pilling on (maybe some folks commented without reading the full thread and didn't realize I had been pummeled enough already on the topic). I am glad to see that I got a bit of empathy from some folks who realized that most of us would not catch such policy changes so close to travel.
For what it's worth, neither the AI check in agent at KTM nor the UA FB team made any mention of that responsibility nor that it was mine to bear (so I stayed in the dark as to that point until my post here). The AI agent at KTM was actually apologetic for the fact that the change had just recently happened and there was no prior notice (he said it was "5 days ago", so I'm guessing that meant calendar days vs business days, per an earlier question), but he correctly stated that AI wasn't responsible to make other arrangements for me. I am not sure why the offer to fly to DEL was withdrawn, but I am not sure I would've felt comfortable taking it, as he mentioned twice that the information he got from the station managers in India was that Indian immigration was being strict about this change. The UA FB team offered to try and help but again said nothing about the responsibility being mine, which combined with my lack of knowledge on the subject, reinforced my original (erroneous) assumption that AI/UA should have notified me.
I guess as of now my expectation is to get the miles redeposited (not sure why the FB team told me the reservation was canceled when it wasn't) and to hopefully have the redeposit fee waived ($100 for PS). It's still strange that the FB team also said they couldn't see the award space that I was able to book and use. I would assume that if they had been able to see it and change the existing reservation, I wouldn't have needed to pay the close-in award booking fee ($50 for PS). Maybe if I'm lucky they'll waive that too.
Thanks to all who contributed to the discussion. If it helps someone down the line, maybe it was worth all our time.
For what it's worth, neither the AI check in agent at KTM nor the UA FB team made any mention of that responsibility nor that it was mine to bear (so I stayed in the dark as to that point until my post here). The AI agent at KTM was actually apologetic for the fact that the change had just recently happened and there was no prior notice (he said it was "5 days ago", so I'm guessing that meant calendar days vs business days, per an earlier question), but he correctly stated that AI wasn't responsible to make other arrangements for me. I am not sure why the offer to fly to DEL was withdrawn, but I am not sure I would've felt comfortable taking it, as he mentioned twice that the information he got from the station managers in India was that Indian immigration was being strict about this change. The UA FB team offered to try and help but again said nothing about the responsibility being mine, which combined with my lack of knowledge on the subject, reinforced my original (erroneous) assumption that AI/UA should have notified me.
I guess as of now my expectation is to get the miles redeposited (not sure why the FB team told me the reservation was canceled when it wasn't) and to hopefully have the redeposit fee waived ($100 for PS). It's still strange that the FB team also said they couldn't see the award space that I was able to book and use. I would assume that if they had been able to see it and change the existing reservation, I wouldn't have needed to pay the close-in award booking fee ($50 for PS). Maybe if I'm lucky they'll waive that too.
Thanks to all who contributed to the discussion. If it helps someone down the line, maybe it was worth all our time.
Oct 29, 2018, 3:12 pm
#50
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Airlines have some responsibilities from the immigration authorities. Informing you of requirements/changes is not one of them, even if enforcing some requirements is.
Oct 29, 2018, 3:35 pm
#52
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Oct 29, 2018, 8:23 pm
#53
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Please explain how you can go KTM-LXA-CTU-SFO. I thought to fly through China without a visa you had to enter the country from one country and leave the country from the same airport to another country with certain cities having various maximum stays.
Oct 29, 2018, 8:45 pm
#54
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China allows a 24-hour transit without visa for most visitors, regardless of the number of stops. The 72- and 144-hour transits you’re describing are not available when taking a domestic flight, but the 24-hour transit is.
Oct 29, 2018, 8:52 pm
#55
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Oct 29, 2018, 10:32 pm
#56
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I thought that was only given at specific airports. I mean LXA airport! Thats like a really tricky airport to even book a flight to. He would have needed a special travel permit just to get on the plane in theory. They don't just give those out to individuals, you need to often book a group thing thru a chinese operator.
Oct 29, 2018, 10:46 pm
#57
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NO, not if your total time from first scheduled touchdown in China to last takeoff from China is less than 24 hours.
Oct 29, 2018, 10:55 pm
#58
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And bashing the OP a little more...
I’m not sure if visa rules have changed recently (and I’m not quite convinced there was a dual transit scheme to begin with but I could be wrong) but expecting to do an inter country (India or almost any other country for that matter) without a visa is asking for trouble. Lucky for OP that China is an exception!
Applying for an e-Visa before hand should be the SOP for such trips. Had you been exiting the country from DEL it would have been different and OP would have had grounds for argument but not compensation.
Of course if they knew visa was an issue I don’t know how they could ask you the go to DEL and the hope for the best... that’s just crazy on AI’s part.
I’m not sure if visa rules have changed recently (and I’m not quite convinced there was a dual transit scheme to begin with but I could be wrong) but expecting to do an inter country (India or almost any other country for that matter) without a visa is asking for trouble. Lucky for OP that China is an exception!
Applying for an e-Visa before hand should be the SOP for such trips. Had you been exiting the country from DEL it would have been different and OP would have had grounds for argument but not compensation.
Of course if they knew visa was an issue I don’t know how they could ask you the go to DEL and the hope for the best... that’s just crazy on AI’s part.
Last edited by PiperAtGatesofDawn; Oct 30, 2018 at 12:02 am
Oct 30, 2018, 1:59 am
#59
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The segment KTM-LXA-CTU was one flight (CA408). For people whose destination was CTU, they were deplaned at LXA to go through immigration procedures, since the continuation of the flight (LXA-CTU) operates as a domestic flight. I’m guessing that from an immigration point of view, they considered CTU my first destination in China, but they just happened to look at and stamp my passport at LXA. The really strange thing is that during that whole process, right after immigration, they had us exit through customs and I was temporarily “present” in Tibet! Our next step was to proceed to a checkin counter which was closed, other than a single agent that stapled an extra document on to our KTM-CTU boarding pass and then we walked around to another section to go through security to re-enter the terminal. Between those 2 stations, I walked by an exit where I could have easily gotten out of the airport and into Tibet, without anyone seeing me. Obviously I wouldn’t have gotten too far since my passport didn’t have the necessary papers, but I still thought it was strange that the setup was so lax given how strict they are about people entering Tibet.
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Oct 30, 2018 at 4:04 pm Reason: merging consecutive posts by same member
Oct 30, 2018, 2:43 am
#60
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The segment KTM-LXA-CTU was one flight (CA408). For people whose destination was CTU, they were deplaned at LXA to go through immigration procedures, since the continuation of the flight (LXA-CTU) operates as a domestic flight. I’m guessing that from an immigration point of view, they considered CTU my first destination in China, but they just happened to look at and stamp my passport at LXA. The really strange thing is that during that whole process, right after immigration, they had us exit through customs and I was temporarily “present” in Tibet! Our next step was to proceed to a checkin counter which was closed, other than a single agent that stapled an extra document on to our KTM-CTU boarding pass and then we walked around to another section to go through security to re-enter the terminal. Between those 2 stations, I walked by an exit where I could have easily gotten out of the airport and into Tibet, without anyone seeing me. Obviously I wouldn’t have gotten too far since my passport didn’t have the necessary papers, but I still thought it was strange that the setup was so lax given how strict they are about people entering Tibet.