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Denied boarding at KTM by Air India on UA ticket ("new" India dual transit rules)

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Denied boarding at KTM by Air India on UA ticket ("new" India dual transit rules)

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Old Oct 30, 2018, 3:40 pm
  #76  
 
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A tough lesson for sure...but at least you know to check such matters in the future. Good on you for not taking TOO much umbrage at the tone of some of the advice, and for accepting the reality of the situation... Had you NOT been under stress (as any of us would have been in your position) you might have even thought it through and realised that with the MYRIAD of different citizenships/passports held by any airlines passengers each day, the airline would be swamped trying to match up all the differing visa requirements and then sending out advice for every possible change/situation... Whenever I read ANY of these accounts I feel VERY grateful that my passport is one that allows visa free entry/transit or Visa on arrival to so many countries...…..but I STILL scour the appropriate Timatic rules before even booking for new destinations...
I hope your NEXT trip is a "pearler"..to make up for that one!
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Old Oct 30, 2018, 4:00 pm
  #77  
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Originally Posted by stephanos99
...I truly felt I deserved compensation...but at no point was I in this to milk money...
Sometimes the difference is hard to discern

Your experience, albeit dreadful for you. has helped others (incl. me) to avoid such situations and to check TIMATIC more regularly. I know it's little compensation, but thanks from me!.
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Old Oct 31, 2018, 1:52 am
  #78  
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Originally Posted by skywardhunter
The flights are connecting from an international leg and many of the pax have not yet cleared immigration, thus many pax do not have the "D"
that may be true....i have not been in this position so can't say how this works....having said that, earlier this year i traveled cmb-bom-lhr-jfk on one ticket & at cmb i was only given my boarding pass for the first leg....i got the other 2 boarding passes in bom for the remaining 2 legs....so i do not know if the op would have received all boarding passes at ktm or if he would have had to get the rest in del or bom....

the simple point is that it is not beyond the realm of possibility for someone to walk out without a visa in such a situation....i remember a conversation a few years ago with a senior officer at a regional passport office who told me that there were a number of instances of afghani citizens sneaking into the country via this method & recommendations had been made to put extra measures in place to ensure this does not happen....there could be a number of reasons why they are now disallowing this & my gut feel is that this particular reason would be at the top of their list....
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Old Oct 31, 2018, 7:08 am
  #79  
 
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Originally Posted by Keyser
that may be true....i have not been in this position so can't say how this works....having said that, earlier this year i traveled cmb-bom-lhr-jfk on one ticket & at cmb i was only given my boarding pass for the first leg....i got the other 2 boarding passes in bom for the remaining 2 legs....so i do not know if the op would have received all boarding passes at ktm or if he would have had to get the rest in del or bom....

the simple point is that it is not beyond the realm of possibility for someone to walk out without a visa in such a situation....i remember a conversation a few years ago with a senior officer at a regional passport office who told me that there were a number of instances of afghani citizens sneaking into the country via this method & recommendations had been made to put extra measures in place to ensure this does not happen....there could be a number of reasons why they are now disallowing this & my gut feel is that this particular reason would be at the top of their list....
Keyser - do you know why these INTL connectors are still offered? It made sense earlier when INTL and DOM were at different terminals in BOM and DEL. Now that they are co-located - why is AI the only airline in India offering these? 9W, AFAIK doesn't have any.
I get the benefits of clearing immigration at final destination/origin - but it seems a bigger headache for the authorities to implement this for just one airline.
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Old Oct 31, 2018, 8:32 am
  #80  
 
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Originally Posted by Acid
Keyser - do you know why these INTL connectors are still offered? It made sense earlier when INTL and DOM were at different terminals in BOM and DEL. Now that they are co-located - why is AI the only airline in India offering these? 9W, AFAIK doesn't have any.
I get the benefits of clearing immigration at final destination/origin - but it seems a bigger headache for the authorities to implement this for just one airline.
Because AI can consolidate two markets into a single flight, where demand for each market alone would be insufficient to maintain the route. E.g. JED-HYD-BOM, people wanting to fly from either HYD or BOM to JED or reverse can book this flight, no need to disembark during the stopover so for those pax it's like a single flight. The domestic tag which is sold for pax between just those cities is just a bonus to prep up the load
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Old Oct 31, 2018, 9:21 am
  #81  
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Originally Posted by Acid
Keyser - do you know why these INTL connectors are still offered? It made sense earlier when INTL and DOM were at different terminals in BOM and DEL. Now that they are co-located - why is AI the only airline in India offering these? 9W, AFAIK doesn't have any.
I get the benefits of clearing immigration at final destination/origin - but it seems a bigger headache for the authorities to implement this for just one airline.
no clue at all....like you said, the only benefit i can think of is that you get to clear immigration at your final destination....
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Old Oct 31, 2018, 11:45 am
  #82  
 
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Originally Posted by moondog
LXA was definitely your port of entry, and I highly doubt anyone would have "checked your papers" if you left the airport.
Maybe not immediately outside the airport doors, but when I visited Tibet a few years ago, we had document checks several times per day along various stretches of road.
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Old Oct 31, 2018, 12:58 pm
  #83  
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Originally Posted by stephanos99
This is the page on the AI website that I based my final decision that a visa was not required. My intra-India flight was AI102, which is one of those “international” domestic flights. That flight actually operates DEL-BOM-NYC. Having the DEL-BOM segment operate as “international”, means that whether a passenger boards at DEL or BOM, they go through passport control at their originating airport, since the flight departs from an international gate at DEL and arrives at and departs from an international gate at BOM. In my case, that meant that, per instructions on that page, when I arrived at DEL from KTM as an international passenger, I would proceed straight to the gate for AI102, staying in the international section of the terminal and never passing immigration and customs (as stated twice on that page). Similarly, again as per statements on that page, when I would have arrived at BOM I would have done so at an international gate, and then I would have proceeded to the international gate for AC47, again bypassing immigration and customs. If I never crossed an immigration line at DEL or BOM, I would have never officially “entered” the country, no immigration officer would have ever looked at my passport, so no visa would ever get checked. The information given on that page, while not directly addressing a scenario where this transit process takes place twice, clearly says that I should not even attempt to pass through immigration:
  • You are not allowed to proceed or pass through immigration and Customs unless you fulfil other requisite criteria.
I read the last part of “other requisite criteria” as don’t go through immigration unless you have a visa. Since my transit process would have involved no interaction with immigration, I read that page as no visa is required if your entire stay in India is inside the international section of an airport.

I interpreted the “we’re sorry but the policy changed 5 days ago” statement of the AI agent at KTM as of 6 days prior I would have been able to complete this transit process through India without a visa (meaning my original interpretation of the referenced AI page was correct), but based on the policy change, dual transit scenarios such as mine were no longer allowed without a visa. This still doesn’t make sense to me, especially based on the instructions still in place on the AI page, since I would have never interacted with an immigration officer, and therefore they’d have no knowledge whether I was going through with a visa or not. The only place that could be enforced would be by the airline at the original embarkation point, which is what happened in my case. To save the potential naysayers the trouble, I understand that it’s possible that AI has not updated that page yet. But FWIW, I still have have not been able to find anything online that references such a policy change.
Just a note to the page on AI website --- it only talks about being able to stay within international transit area and not needing to go through immigration, it does NOT say that you therefore does not require a visa. They are different things.

I used to hold a passport which requires visa to (even transit in) Canada, and was on the CX flight sin-hkg-yvr-jfk. The plane stopped at yvr re-fueling while pax stay onboard and then continued on to jfk (I heard that this arrangement had changed in later years, but in 2001 it was like that). I was informed that although i don't need to go through immigration (staying onboard in yvr), i still need Canada transit visa. I was lucky that CX changed my ticket free of charge to avoid touching Canada ground since i do not have the visa.

From then on i learn that the need to go through immigration and the need of a visa are two different things.
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Old Oct 31, 2018, 2:22 pm
  #84  
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Originally Posted by stephanos99
If I never crossed an immigration line at DEL or BOM, I would have never officially “entered” the country, no immigration officer would have ever looked at my passport, so no visa would ever get checked. The information given on that page, while not directly addressing a scenario where this transit process takes place twice, clearly says that I should not even attempt to pass through immigration:
  • You are not allowed to proceed or pass through immigration and Customs unless you fulfil other requisite criteria.
I read the last part of “other requisite criteria” as don’t go through immigration unless you have a visa. Since my transit process would have involved no interaction with immigration, I read that page as no visa is required if your entire stay in India is inside the international section of an airport.
No amount of scare quotes will change the reality you can be subject to immigration regulations regardless of your ability to see an immigration officer.

An example closer to home would be US exit immigration, which has requirements, even if there are no physical checkpoints where you would see the immigration officer.

Originally Posted by Often1
It's crazy to berate OP for ticketing a routing which was permissible without a visa when booked and following a process which exists elsewhere in the world.
Crazy would be expecting the same process everywhere in the world, IMO.
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Old Oct 31, 2018, 2:39 pm
  #85  
 
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Originally Posted by mduell
No amount of scare quotes will change the reality you can be subject to immigration regulations regardless of your ability to see an immigration officer.

An example closer to home would be US exit immigration, which has requirements, even if there are no physical checkpoints where you would see the immigration officer.



Crazy would be expecting the same process everywhere in the world, IMO.
These are all good points you and others have made. I've had international transit situations where passports checks are the standard procedure (LHR and VIE) and random (YYZ upon exiting the aircraft). None have involved visa requirements for me but I can certainly imagine the possibility that it could for someone else. I think the lesson is to not assume you don't need a visa just because the "standard" procedure might indicate you don't, especially when you have a rather convoluted itinerary such as that for the OP.
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Old Nov 1, 2018, 12:57 am
  #86  
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Originally Posted by Often1
It's crazy to berate OP for ticketing a routing which was permissible without a visa when booked and following a process which exists elsewhere in the world.
sometimes airlines would do this without realizing the consequences....a couple of months ago i had purchased a ticket via dl, the routing was del-ams-lhr-ams-del, with all flights operated by klm....since i was just transiting at ams i did not require a schengen visa....on my way back the ams-del flight was severely delayed so dl on their own switched me to a lhr-ams-cdg-del flight....now this new route would require me having a schengen visa to travel from ams-cdg....luckily i had that & didn't have a problem but if there were others on my flight without a visa then they would have either been denied boarding at lhr or run into a problem at ams....
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Old Nov 1, 2018, 11:21 pm
  #87  
 
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Originally Posted by stephanos99
This is the page on the AI website that I based my final decision that a visa was not required.
Your interpretation of the regulations was inaccurate.

Travel on the domestic "sterile" leg while in "international transit" has always only been permitted for those on Air India ONLY itineraries (viz. arrival AND departure on Air India). There is a special customs bond that AI has in place to facilitate this. If you are arriving or departing India on a non-Air India flight, this has never been officially permitted (although people have been able to sneak through the cracks on occasion).
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Old Nov 4, 2018, 7:08 am
  #88  
 
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Sorry to hear about your difficult experience. Some tips for the future:
1) I always have some sort of north american voip handy. I use fongo which is Canadian, but it allows you to dial any toll free number in north america for free as long as you have internet. Works well for united and most airlines also have some sort of north american contact (google says air india has toll free numbers for both us and canada for example).
2) China is notorious for flight delays. My mom has had multiple issues in the past and now refuses to transit there. Based on what I remember from what she told me about her research around 60% of flights in china are delayed and it's due to a combination of poor infrastructure as well as the military controlling the majority of the airspace.
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Old Nov 4, 2018, 7:34 am
  #89  
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Originally Posted by Kacee
Exactly. And it's even a bigger stretch to blame UA. All they did was issue an award ticket per the OP's request.

This one should be chalked up to "stuff happens sometimes when you travel" rather than a blame game directed at the airlines. Subject to the caveat that booking an India (or China) transit wov inherently carries some measure of risk, for which the passenger ultimately bears responsibility.
OP complied with rules that AI even went as far as to publish the particular flight numbers that it applies to.
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