View Poll Results: Should UA Stop CPUs and Revert to a Paid (e.g. E-500) Upgrade Scheme?
No. The current system is fine. Leave it alone.
67
34.18%
Use the E-500 system for ALL flights and ALL elites (no elites get unlimited 500s)
32
16.33%
Use the E-500 system for ALL flights but Plats and higher get unlimited 500s.
7
3.57%
Use the E-500 system for ALL flights but 1Ks and higher get unlimited 500s.
17
8.67%
Use the E-500 system for ALL flights but only GSs get unlimited 500s.
6
3.06%
Use the E-500 system for 500mi+ flights and ALL elites (no elites get unlimited 500s)
9
4.59%
Use the E-500 system for 500mi+ flights but Plats and higher get unlimited 500s.
6
3.06%
Use the E-500 system for 500mi+ flights but 1Ks and higher get unlimited 500s.
11
5.61%
Use the E-500 system for 500mi+ flights but only GSs get unlimited 500s.
4
2.04%
I don't care. Either way my upgrade a'int clearing.
37
18.88%
Voters: 196. You may not vote on this poll
UA should kill CPU and go back to E-500s
Oct 1, 2018, 2:30 pm
#16
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Colorado
Programs: UA Gold (.85 MM), HH Diamond, SPG Platinum (LT Gold), Hertz PC, National EE
Posts: 5,652
Soon to be 100%. UA is clawing back bonuses on TODs. It's clear that they want them to work like mileage upgrades, where you get credit for the class originally purchased. They simply haven't worked out the IT kinks yet.
Then you were basically buying TODs.
Getting 4 free e500s for every 10K PQMs means I'll get upgraded 20% of the time. I'm doing much better than that as a 1K.
This is a salient point. The pmCO counterpart was that they didn't have a gate upgrade list, but they'd give them first-come, first-served at the gate to elites who asked. If you didn't clear in advance, you and you didn't ask, you sat in Y. I had something like 140 segments over two years with exactly two in Y.
Then you were basically buying TODs.
Getting 4 free e500s for every 10K PQMs means I'll get upgraded 20% of the time. I'm doing much better than that as a 1K.
This is a salient point. The pmCO counterpart was that they didn't have a gate upgrade list, but they'd give them first-come, first-served at the gate to elites who asked. If you didn't clear in advance, you and you didn't ask, you sat in Y. I had something like 140 segments over two years with exactly two in Y.
Oct 1, 2018, 3:03 pm
#17
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 21,390
Upgrades are going away because there are more and more premier members and because F is priced much more cheaply than it used to be. If you're so happy to pay for e500s, use that same money, adjusted a bit for inflation, to buy F, either up front or via a TOD. I'll continue to get upgraded well more than 20% of the time while spending less. We're both happy.
Oct 1, 2018, 3:28 pm
#18
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Austin, TX
Programs: CoUniHound 1K 1MM, AA EXP 2MM, DL Plat, Marriott Lifetime Titanium
Posts: 1,625
10+ years ago I was a Platinum on CO. That was the top elite for CO at the time, before they introduced something like GS (Presidential Platinum?). CPU system didn't have any instruments. I upgraded 95% of my flights. Now, not even close. It's not the lack of instruments. It's cheap F fares and buy-ups. the good old days are gone and aren't coming back.
Oct 1, 2018, 6:04 pm
#19
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Colorado
Programs: UA Gold (.85 MM), HH Diamond, SPG Platinum (LT Gold), Hertz PC, National EE
Posts: 5,652
It's nice of you to volunteer to spend my money for me.
Upgrades are going away because there are more and more premier members and because F is priced much more cheaply than it used to be. If you're so happy to pay for e500s, use that same money, adjusted a bit for inflation, to buy F, either up front or via a TOD. I'll continue to get upgraded well more than 20% of the time while spending less. We're both happy.
Upgrades are going away because there are more and more premier members and because F is priced much more cheaply than it used to be. If you're so happy to pay for e500s, use that same money, adjusted a bit for inflation, to buy F, either up front or via a TOD. I'll continue to get upgraded well more than 20% of the time while spending less. We're both happy.
Also, if memory serves you would have done much better under E-500’s than 20%. Even on OPM and not willing to spend a single dime out of pocket, your happy?
I remember the 4/10K/quarterly thing. What did we get per year as 1K’s?
Last edited by COSPILOT; Oct 1, 2018 at 6:12 pm
Oct 1, 2018, 6:34 pm
#21
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 21,390
The price changes all the time. The "non elites being offered a cheaper price" thing is more or less an urban myth at this point. It may happen, but it seems to be exceedingly rare. Mostly, I just see the route differential when there's decent inventory and a higher number when there isn't, and it doesn't seem to change based on status.
I'm mostly spending my own money. I just refuse to pay for domestic F in any but the most unusual of circumstances; it's not valuable, especially when my CPU% is decent.
It seems to me that, as a 1K with a CPU% > 20% (on non-GPU/RPU flights, so I'm trying for parity here), the net result of going to e500s would be that I'd be upgraded less in favor of people with lower status (or 1Ks on a lower fare class -- but I tend to buy inexpensive tickets). I can see why they might like that. I don't see why that's better for me though, or why it's better for UA.
When you have 70+ premier members on a hub-hub transcon, there is no upgrade strategy that is going to get everyone into first. The OP mentioned 50 people on the list for one seat -- nobody has explained how e500s would help with that.
CPUs worked fine on pmCO... 15 years ago. The CPUs aren't the problem. The 15 years are.
Oct 1, 2018, 6:37 pm
#22
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: SAN
Posts: 148
A switch to E-500s only helps if:
- UA is stingy with them, so people have more flights they want to upgrade than usable certs. That'd be the opposite of the RPU situation now, where CPU is impossible because a pile of 1Ks with too many RPUs they can never use will always be above you on the list. Doing that would likely anger 1Ks who now have to pick and choose when to be upgraded instead of having a chance every time.
- OR, you want to be upgraded on flights no one else does, so no one else is applying certs.
Asked 1K line that if TOD books the passenger to a new booking class (P/Z) or just an upgrade (R) since if in P/Z then one'll get PQD/PQM, otherwise, it sticks to original.
However, 1K line didn't know the answer..
From the data points I have now, 50%/50% chance in each case...
How could you make sure that TOD booked you in an new class?
Thx~~
Oct 1, 2018, 7:18 pm
#23
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 21,390
You can't. The only way to ensure that you're booked into a class with extra PQMs is to call UA and ask to buy up into first class. The price should be the difference between the current first class fare and whatever you paid. This may be more, less, or the same as the TOD price.
Oct 1, 2018, 11:15 pm
#24
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Colorado
Programs: UA Gold (.85 MM), HH Diamond, SPG Platinum (LT Gold), Hertz PC, National EE
Posts: 5,652
The price changes all the time. The "non elites being offered a cheaper price" thing is more or less an urban myth at this point. It may happen, but it seems to be exceedingly rare. Mostly, I just see the route differential when there's decent inventory and a higher number when there isn't, and it doesn't seem to change based on status.
Someone else will have to chime in there, as I was pmCO. I do know there were the SWUs and CR1s in addition to the e500s. When I first looked into the program, though, that's what struck me -- four e500s per 10K of traveling, which is where the 20% comes from. I don't remember their being an extra award of e500s, although there certainly could have been.
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Someone else will have to chime in there, as I was pmCO. I do know there were the SWUs and CR1s in addition to the e500s. When I first looked into the program, though, that's what struck me -- four e500s per 10K of traveling, which is where the 20% comes from. I don't remember their being an extra award of e500s, although there certainly could have been.
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I'm still struggling to remember exactly what I got as a 1K PMUA, but all I know is that I spent much less overall with UA, and spent much more time in first. Giving it out for free is certainly a PMCO method, while PMUA put a value on upgrades. I'd prefer a little skin in the game, so let's remove all free upgrades and only do the upgrade via TOD's, but only at a consistent price for all, or even a discount for elites. That seems pretty fair to me. Free has only brought us reduced meals (often non existent) on flights. I'm fine with spending more, whether E-500's or TOD's.
Oct 2, 2018, 1:29 am
#26
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 21,390
Giving it out for free is certainly a PMCO method, while PMUA put a value on upgrades. I'd prefer a little skin in the game, so let's remove all free upgrades and only do the upgrade via TOD's, but only at a consistent price for all, or even a discount for elites. That seems pretty fair to me. Free has only brought us reduced meals (often non existent) on flights. I'm fine with spending more, whether E-500's or TOD's.
Furthermore, if you're willing to spend more via TODs, what's stopping you? UA is offering the route differential -- the TOD price -- pretty much from booking to departure at this point, unless inventory gets constrained. I will never begrudge UA for selling "my seat" to you for a TOD.
This is a nostalgia thread, plain and simple. DL figured out how to monetize domestic F, and UA and AA have followed suit. There's no way to turn back the clock on this, which means none of these proposals will help. There's just not enough F inventory for all of the premier members.
Oct 2, 2018, 1:42 am
#27
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: SAN
Programs: 1K (since 2008), *G (since 1990), 1MM
Posts: 3,217
I should have been more precise. I think the idea that non-premier members routinely get huge discounts compared to premier members is an urban myth. We see one report of it every few months -- and even when we do, we don't know if there is a confounding factor like a different underlying fare. I'm also of the opinion it should never happen....
Her TOD were less than mine. She had no status. Now perhaps the fact it was just two times in the last year is not imperial evidence but certainly annoyed me both times.
Oct 2, 2018, 2:31 am
#28
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Hawai'i Nei
Programs: Au: UA, Marriott, Hilton; GE
Posts: 7,139
Rather than the current system, let’s go back to the days when being nice to the checkin or gate agent could get you an instant upgrade. The caliber of F was better back then.
And while we are going back in time, I used to so frequently deplane from flights to/from Hawaii with FA-awarded bottles of wine and champagne that it became an irritation to my siblings who never quite understood the required technique.
But I am dating myself...
And while we are going back in time, I used to so frequently deplane from flights to/from Hawaii with FA-awarded bottles of wine and champagne that it became an irritation to my siblings who never quite understood the required technique.
But I am dating myself...
Oct 2, 2018, 5:10 am
#29
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: New York, NY
Programs: UA, AA, DL, Hertz, Avis, National, Hyatt, Hilton, SPG, Marriott
Posts: 9,448
I don't think returning to the e500 system will lead to dramatically better upgrade rates... the pricing environment for domestic F is radically different from a decade or more ago, with many Ffares prices at smaller increments over prevailing discount economy fares.
When advance purchase J on the LAX/SFO-NYC transcons is routinely ~$650 one way, you know things are very different. Most carriers have taken the position that it is more profitable to sell out the cabins at a smaller premium than only get a handful of pax at a high premium and give the rest out to elites. C'est la vie...
When advance purchase J on the LAX/SFO-NYC transcons is routinely ~$650 one way, you know things are very different. Most carriers have taken the position that it is more profitable to sell out the cabins at a smaller premium than only get a handful of pax at a high premium and give the rest out to elites. C'est la vie...
Oct 2, 2018, 5:26 am
#30
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2003
Programs: UA*Lifetime GS, Hyatt* Lifetime Globalist
Posts: 12,324
Rather than the current system, let’s go back to the days when being nice to the checkin or gate agent could get you an instant upgrade. The caliber of F was better back then.
And while we are going back in time, I used to so frequently deplane from flights to/from Hawaii with FA-awarded bottles of wine and champagne that it became an irritation to my siblings who never quite understood the required technique.
But I am dating myself...
And while we are going back in time, I used to so frequently deplane from flights to/from Hawaii with FA-awarded bottles of wine and champagne that it became an irritation to my siblings who never quite understood the required technique.
But I am dating myself...
I am not sure the idea of getting upgrades by dressing nicely will work in this day and age or in the future.