dmurphynj

PVDProf

With the combined AS/DL expansions at SEA, the airport is chockablock. There may be some expansion/contraction in the gates those two, and their international partners, hold, but I don't see enough space for UA to get meaningfully more gates. I think this bid into PAE is the first step in their Seattle strategy, and I really think it's a good one. From Redmond, it's actually shorter in miles and traffic to go to PAE than SEA; and it's about break even from my house. With the reduction in UA out of SEA, I mostly end up flying through DEN or SFO (or IAH) all the time anyhow, and wouldn't I rather a more accessible airport with shorter security lines (I hope they have a Caffe Vita, though)? Maybe look for them to add capacity to IAH, or if HQ2 ends up at a UA hub. Upgauging should be easy...PAE's runways can take plane a little bigger than an E175!

I thought briefly about whether UA could add international focus cities, returning to the NRT or HKG stub flights. But many of those flights were aircraft utilization plays, and with expensive jet fuel, landing slot and crew costs, many of those don't make sense anymore. Their aircraft acquisition plan is setting them up to cover more of the long, thin routes that would be served by international focus cities from current US hubs.

DG206

Ah the old days. Flew AS not that long ago out of N gates and the inside of jetway was still painted orange and red. Certainly remember the old Beechcraft 1900's and EMB-120's Untied Express used to fly around the PNW.

Some sort of focus at PAE would be nice but believe part of the agreement to let the terminal be built and use for commercial service is the NIMBY's want restrictions on the amount of aircraft operations so there is a set limit of allowed operations per day. I don't live in Seattle area anymore so lost track of all that but pretty sure there were some restrictions sadly. Would love to avoid SEA if possible whenever we go back to visit

Cledaybuck

It's the same reason as UA at HOU, OAK, MDW, and JFK or AA at DAL and MDW. You don't compete with yourself at your hub airport unless you absolutely have to (eg LGA, DCA).

Chalmers3716

Not to be pedantic, but focusing on "cities" might be a bit misleading. A place like Jacksonville is geographically huge, because the city limits are drawn so far. Consequently, the 'city' is big, but isolated and draws virtually nothing outside the city limits. Other cities would surpass it if you focus on Metropolitan Areas instead. It's the 5th largest "city" on your list, but would be the 20th largest metropolitan area without a hub.

The list would be BOS, SAN, TPA, STL, MCO, SAT, PDX, PIT, SAC, LAS, CVG, MCI, AUS, CMH, CLE, IND, SJC, BNA, ORF and MKE all coming in before JAX.

Of that list, pretty much every city is either a hub/focus city for Southwest, and/or a former hub that's been downsized, and/or incredibly close to an existing hub. And a city like Boston seems like a difficult hub setup, because it's further north and east than so many other places. Aside from transatlantic, connecting "through" Boston would almost certainly mean a fair amount of doubling back.

Obviously I've got a big bias here, and it is both a Southwest focus city AND a former hub, but I do think St. Louis could serve well as a relief city for any of the legacy carriers. It is still fairly close to AA/UA in Chicago, but doesn't have nearly the weather issues in the winter. And with Memphis/Cincinnati no longer being hubs, it's 8 hours from the nearest DL hub as well.

The terminals were built when it was a TWA hub, so they're definitely not operating at capacity and, irony of ironies, TWA's fight to get an additional runway built took so long that, by the time it was completed, TWA was no more, AA had downgraded the city, and the runway wasn't really needed.

IAD1k

GRU ..

BF263533

UA needs to look more at the Southeast. GSO could be an option with smaller aircraft. Dulles (IAD) expansion could also help the Southeast.

applegrcoug

Dang, maybe I better go get a lottery ticket! I hadn't realized anything had been formally announced yet.

I also hope it is a signal to give the PNW a little more love.

I am not holding out hope for any love to YKM. Delta tried it several years ago and only lasted a few months. Alaska varies between three and four flights per day here...on again, off again and then cancels a fair number in winter. However, I hope they give a bit more love to GEG, PSC and PDX.

I really don't like leaving from SEA. Traffic getting there is bad, the hotels in the area are expensive and not that good and the parking is expensive. I imagine for me, PAE will be similar. But for the same three hour trek, I can also get to PDX and GEG. Parking at GEG is practically free and the hotels are pretty nice and cheap. Just only one flight to ORD and none to the LA area. AA out of GEG is even worse than UA at GEG.

I'd also love it if they ran one more SFO flight from PSC or maybe even an ORD flight. But it really seems to be dominated by DL there....pretty small market.

One can hope...I think while I'm at it, I'll hope for a citation.

Boofer

UA clearly has a gap in their domestic network. Their service in the southeast is very poor. Basically they've ceded share to AA and DL for anyone living in NC, GA, AL and southeast from those states. I fly often from our JAX location, and UA service is disappointing. Basically there are hub flights as follows:

JAX-ORD 3/daily
JAX-EWR 5/daily
JAX-IAD 3/daily
JAX-IAH 4/daily
JAX-DEN 1/daily

with schedules, frequencies, and aircraft changing often with seasonal updates. But this isn't so much a thought about JAX service on UA, it's more a comment on their overall service in the southeast. Since they lack a hub that can efficiently serve this part of the country, it is difficult to fly within the southeast or to South America on United. If I needed to fly to RDU, CLT, BNA, ATL, MEM, etc, I would have to connect via IAD, ORD, or IAH. If I needed to fly to South America, IAD is the most logical option, because flying so far west to IAH to fly back east/southeast to Brazil or Argentina makes no sense time-wise.

I know that much of the southeast, Florida in particular, has poor load factors because it's all beaches and Disney. But it's a shame for loyal UA flyers travelling to/from the southeast who have to suffer very inconvenient hub connections on UA. It seems that UA have simply ceded this territory to DL via ATL and AA via CLT.

As for the comments on this thread, no - there is not another viable hub city in the U.S. that is not already a hub city. Certainly JAX is nowhere near the kind of place to put a hub. But it's still too bad that UA doesn't have better service in the region.

maverickar15

As much as I want to say SEA (since I'm based here now) I don't see it happening.
Internationally most of the popular Asian cities are already served by *A carriers or DL. Tokyo is going to have 3 direct flights with JAL joining the fray.

At this point in time my UA flying is relegated to flying to other domestic hub cities (namely SFO and DEN) and all the other will be either Alaska or Delta.
For those international cities where non-stop is available I will be flying with them... (i.e. NH / OZ etc). Flying TATL it is either flying DL/ Virgin atlantic or 1-stop w/ UA.

Not complaining if UA plans to come back to SEA in the future, but I can't see it happening. Maybe PAE will have some more significance.

This is one thing I very much miss living in SFO. I could go anywhere on UA.

Boofer

Here's an idea - UA could develop a hub-like operation at YVR in partnership with AC. Basically fly from multiple spots in the US that are not served by AC (or that are only served by AC's tiny CRJ's with all their awful OTD performance) to connect to AC's TPAC service. UA adds their own TATL and TPAC service out of YVR where AC doesn't currently fly. It would be a great addition to their route network and really bolster *A into China and Europe. It would be a convenient international gateway that allows UA to service the northwest and could be much more competitive than SEA. And FWIW, I often prefer using Canadian airports as my international gateway to/from the US - it's far more enjoyable clearing US customs at YVR or YYZ than it is at most US hubs.

jsloan

I don't see the Canadian government agreeing to allow UA to launch flights to third countries from YVR.

WineCountryUA

Without reciprocal rights which are forbidden in US law.

BF263533

Continental had HNL as somewhat of a hub with nonstops to SYD, AKL & CNS & other cities.

Continental Lite had a very small hub / focus city I believe at Greensboro for a very short period. The Southeast is UAs weak spot, & better service to IAD could help.

Delta had a small hub at MCO once.

ctownflyer

And 112 miles away from an entire concourse that UA pays $1,112,482 in rent every month for it to sit mothballed.