United Splitting up Families (Basic Economy ticket)
#256
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: SAN
Programs: Nothing, nowhere!
Posts: 23,300
It didn't have to, it could just as easily sat the family together. And if it had done so earlier, the gent who ended up in a middle seat might have ended up in a different aisle seat.
#257
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: SAN
Programs: 1K (since 2008), *G (since 1990), 1MM
Posts: 3,218
Or the OP could have offered his seat to the gent who ended up in the middle seat in an effort to help out his SIL and thank the gentleman who otherwise got stuck with the middle seat. Her (SIL) lack of preparedness became the problem for the poor unfortunate middle seat guy.
#258
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Bregenz, Austria
Programs: AA, BAEC, Alaska, Flying Blue, United, IHG, Hilton
Posts: 2,950
Or they could perfectly easily have let me into the lounge (forgetting that I don't have a pass).
They could also have let me check my luggage without charging me (I mean, I need that suitcase!)
Of course, they quite correctly didn't do any of those, for the simple reason that I hadn't paid for them.
UA's Basic Economy means you don't get to choose who you sit with. It is not a feature of the product that the family bought. If you don't like that, buy something else.
#259
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: SF Bay Area
Programs: UA 1K MM, Accor Plat, Htz PC, Natl ExEm, other random status
Posts: 2,876
Reading the fare rules, it isn't explicit about minor children. They state that 'families' won't necessarily be able to sit together, which makes sense for any group of grown adults (couples, grandparents, sisters, etc). Sure, one could take this interpretation to the fullest extent, but this is an interpretation that in my opinion defies common sense, an interpretation that is factually at odds with how other airlines treat minor children, and an interpretation that goes against a law that Congress passed (which sure wasn't developed into actual hard rules, but the language was still passed with bipartisan sponsors). So, what we have here is a case of imperfect information.
You're also going to argue that someone who doesn't understand united.com's language on their website is somehow intimately familiar with federal statutory authority that has yet to be implemented into applicable regulation? You have to be kidding me.
Here's what UA presents the moment you click on the button to book a PE fare:
I'm sorry, but it is fair to assume a "reasonable traveler" standard here and expect that a person booking travel online understands that "a group or family" means, well, "a group or family."
The busy mom angle to me is simply the recognition that this is a person who lacked perfect knowledge. In many parts of society, there are situations in which there is a large disparity in outcomes between people who have disparities in knowledge. Oddly enough, the finer details of air travel is one of those areas (in no small part due to a lot of fine print and complicated rules that airlines purposefully develop to squeeze extra profit margins levied on those with imperfect knowledge through fees). I do extensive work in the university setting to correct knowledge-disparities that have produced large disparities in who continues to graduate education (in STEM, where is matters), and frankly, I get sick and tired of people with more perfect knowledge blaming others with imperfect knowledge for their outcomes.
Anyone who can read at the most basic level is provided all of the information necessary for them to understand what the rules are.
It isn't helpful and smacks of privilege. FT should work more at correcting knowledge, not blaming people for a lack of knowlege. And what is that knowledge? That knowledge is that United indeed has this terrible policy on minor children that is in violation of the spirit of a 2016 law passed by Congress but not made into rules. A policy that is less customer friendly than their competitors.
Oh, and about being "less customer friendly than their competitors"? Here's what DL (the market leader) says:
#260
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: ORD
Programs: United Plat 2MM, Hilton Gold
Posts: 2,727
So she is getting personal advice on top of what the web sites say. I also have a hard time thinking "you cannot sit with a group or family" along with a picture of a large person with a small person could possibly be interpreted as "you can sit with your family".
#261
Moderator: Manufactured Spending
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 6,580
It literally could not be more clear in the booking process that if you want to sit together as a group or family, you should book Economy, not Basic Economy, which will cost you an additional cost of $30 per person for this particular routing. It requires you to check a box saying "Basic Economy works for me." There is no need to review "a lot of fine print and complicated rules." This is the plainest of plain English. They even use pictures. The acknowledgement box is written in roughly 1st or 2nd grade level English (I checked).
Anyone who can read at the most basic level is provided all of the information necessary for them to understand what the rules are.
Anyone who can read at the most basic level is provided all of the information necessary for them to understand what the rules are.
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Sep 3, 2018 at 12:07 pm Reason: Discuss the issues, not the poster(s)
#262
Moderator: United Airlines
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Plat 1.995MM, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott Plat/LT Gold, Hilton Silver, IHG Plat
Posts: 66,850
Second Request
Discussions are taking on a very OMNI feeling --- let's focus back on the original issues (what the OP's SIL could/should have done, what UA could/should have done & should do in the future. is it really that clear what the limitations of BE are, ...) and leave the greater societal discussions for the folks in OMNI.
WineCountryUA
UA coModerator
WineCountryUA
UA coModerator
#263
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: CHS
Programs: UA GS, Bonvoy Amabassador, Hertz PC
Posts: 2,589
I read these kind of stories here from time to time and it always makes me shake my head in utter disbelief. How is this even possible? How can it not be OBVIOUS that families should sit together? I don't care what they paid or what someone else paid or who wants an aisle seat or who is platinum whatever or thinks they're entitled to what. I don't care. It's barbaric. We are talking about young children. Why do you need the law to require you to behave with basic human decency? What sort of uncivilised country allows kids to be separated from their parents like that?
am i the only one here who thinks UA is in the wrong? i mean, yes we all know what a BE entails, but most people dont. when they buy a ticket on a legacy carrier they assume they can select seats; or at the minimum be able to be seated together. United is at fault here. they should automatically not allow you to buy BE seats when traveling with minors, or at least force you to pay for seat selection. otherwise they are saying it's acceptable for a 2 year old to be seated alone?? in what world does that make sense? can you imagine the lawsuit if something happened to that child during the flight? common sense needs to prevail here; UA (and all other airlines) need to ensure that a minor does not sit alone; whether it means forcing you into a higher fare or allowing free seat selection
UA was not wrong and followed every Law as we know it to the letter.
OP bought a BE ticket and expected > BE service - that my friend, is the textbook definition of entitlement
What if i bought one ticket in Business and one in economy for my daughter and demanded my seatmate move to economy so I could sit next to my daughter? Same thing, just more money and entitlement involved
Now, like others have said, if your kids are underage, then I would suggest UA not allow booking of BE tickets at all, or making it so if an underage child is booked, there is a link in the reservation between the child and a guardian, so the "System" knows they can't be broken up.
#264
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 177
Yes, yes, yes. And do NOT charge extra for this. A civilised society simply does not penalise parents for being parents. Some things are not about money.
#265
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Miami, Florida
Programs: AA ExPlat, Hyatt Globalist, IHG Spire, Hilton Gold
Posts: 4,009
#267
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: CHS
Programs: UA GS, Bonvoy Amabassador, Hertz PC
Posts: 2,589
#268
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Colorado
Programs: UA Gold (.85 MM), HH Diamond, SPG Platinum (LT Gold), Hertz PC, National EE
Posts: 5,655
When I book hotel rooms for my family and absolutely need adjoining rooms, I don’t book Expedia, and I don’t book the cheapest rooms even with Hilton, SPG, etc. I book it at greater expense most often to ensure we get what we need. Showing up at the hotel with hopes that somehow they knew what I would need, no thank you, I plan in advance, and 13 years of doing it my way has worked and worth every penny. I don’t mind spending more as my kids are my responsibility, not anyone else’s.
IMO BE should be sold, and made clear, that you are buying 4 (or whatever the quantity) separate reservations with no link to each other whatsoever. Lots of warnings that all of you will not sit together, and at UA’s discretion may even send you on different connections as needed.
IMO BE should be sold, and made clear, that you are buying 4 (or whatever the quantity) separate reservations with no link to each other whatsoever. Lots of warnings that all of you will not sit together, and at UA’s discretion may even send you on different connections as needed.
#269
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 241
But then what about seniors flying with a family member and who need assistance? Do we insist that they also be given adjacent seats even if they bought basic economy? If I paid economy I would NOT change my seat for an inferior one regardless of the situation, end of discussion,
#270
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: HNL
Programs: UA GS4MM, MR LT Plat, Hilton Gold
Posts: 6,447
If you want special privileges, you don't get it by having kids - you get it by flying a lot - or paying extra for the privilege -
I'm a dreamer - I hope parents who have issue with this gravitate towards other airlines rather than have this sense of entitlement - the rest of us will have a more enjoyable flying experience.
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Sep 2, 2018 at 10:34 pm Reason: omni content removed