UX F/A mistakes air marshal for passenger with gun-cops haul him off the plane
Aug 22, 2018, 1:38 pm
#16
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I can't fault the crew for the reaction. The flight still landed at MSP in a reasonable amount of time. No one was injured/killed.
You can easily second guess the reactions, but none were unreasonable from the crew.
You can easily second guess the reactions, but none were unreasonable from the crew.
Aug 22, 2018, 1:40 pm
#17
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: YVR
Posts: 39
I want to know why the crew didn't have the joker zip tied and duct taped. I'm not actually being facetious here... why did the crew, upon presentation of a gun in an "irregular manner" did not take steps to secure said firearm and the holder. Just for a second, please consider the alternative -- the guy with a gun wasn't a FAM. What is the procedure then?
Aug 22, 2018, 1:43 pm
#18
Join Date: Feb 2015
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I have no knowledge of the proper protocol for Sky Marshals, but it seems to me the crew had to do what it did because absent proper verification, anyone can flash a gun and claim to be a Sky Marshal.
So FA's - great job.
Sky Marshals- I can't evaluate.
So FA's - great job.
Sky Marshals- I can't evaluate.
Aug 22, 2018, 1:43 pm
#19
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I have seen every single episode of Walker, Texas Ranger.
Aug 22, 2018, 1:47 pm
#20
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So what training, equipment, and and experience do you have that lets you jump someone who is armed, disarm them, and secure them, all with in the tight confines of an aircraft and without get yourself and/or passengers shot in the struggle for said firearm? And which flight attendants have the same?
Aug 22, 2018, 1:55 pm
#21
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crew not at fault, FAM's not at fault for suspicions, Protocol not followed, so go after superviision and training.
We'll never know the weight of the corrective actions as it need remain behind closed doors
We'll never know the weight of the corrective actions as it need remain behind closed doors
Aug 22, 2018, 3:40 pm
#23
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: YVR
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But like you said well probably never hear the FAM's side.
Aug 22, 2018, 5:42 pm
#24
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No where did the story say the FAM didn't have his badge. If anything, the FAM could've been flashing his badge (frequently kept near the gun), and instead of seeing the badge being flashed, the FA only focused on the gun and thought the FAM was trying to flash his gun.
Seems odd to automatically side with the FA, when FAMs have way more training than FAs.
Seems odd to automatically side with the FA, when FAMs have way more training than FAs.
Aug 22, 2018, 6:26 pm
#25
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No where did the story say the FAM didn't have his badge. If anything, the FAM could've been flashing his badge (frequently kept near the gun), and instead of seeing the badge being flashed, the FA only focused on the gun and thought the FAM was trying to flash his gun.
Seems odd to automatically side with the FA, when FAMs have way more training than FAs.
Seems odd to automatically side with the FA, when FAMs have way more training than FAs.
That's a good story. Seems like it took FBI/Police quite a bit to finally let these two goons go. Definitely not cut-n'-dry.
From reading a few articles:
1) FA got suspicious and informs cockpit
2) Captain agrees with FA and informs ATC of issue
3) Plane is met by Police/FBI and boarded by "about" 4 officers
4) The two FAMs are escorted off plane, placed in hand-cuffs, interrogated and eventually released
Apparently through none of those steps was the FAMs badge (or other credentials) sufficient to verify authenticity, until the very end.
At least one of the news articles makes specific reference to the FAM not following proper procedure, which required the appropriate response that was ultimately taken.
I don't know. If I were a FA, and had an unauthenticated passenger with a gun, I think I'd call the cockpit and let them sort it out too.
And to be honest, I have NO IDEA what an air marshal badge looks like. Not sure the FA has such training to verify its legitimacy either.
Aug 22, 2018, 7:07 pm
#26
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Join Date: Jun 2018
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I was always under the assumption that the flight manifests included the identification of any FAM on the flight - regardless if working that flight or not -- if you have a GUN on a plane the crew should know - perhaps that changed but if that was still the policy all this nonsense would have been avoided....
Last edited by Supima; Aug 22, 2018 at 7:12 pm
Aug 22, 2018, 7:43 pm
#27
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Aug 22, 2018, 8:21 pm
#28
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According to the StarTribune:
However, communication between the cockpit and the MSP control tower that was captured by the authoritative website Liveatc.net revealed that it was confirmed onboard fairly quickly that both men were federal air marshals, and one of them “actually showed our flight attendant his gun,” one of the pilots reported soon after landing.
“That is completely against SOP [standard operating procedure] for them to show their firearm,” the pilot added. “So that’s the reason we declared an emergency.”
“That is completely against SOP [standard operating procedure] for them to show their firearm,” the pilot added. “So that’s the reason we declared an emergency.”
Aug 22, 2018, 10:57 pm
#29
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So what training, equipment, and and experience do you have that lets you jump someone who is armed, disarm them, and secure them, all with in the tight confines of an aircraft and without get yourself and/or passengers shot in the struggle for said firearm? And which flight attendants have the same?
Given I literally lived through 9/11 and have the bonfire smell etched into memory -- and that was just boxcutters -- I do not apologize for believing that there is in fact a protocol for just this situation. It's not play nice, because we know how that turned out. FA are here for my safety. Loose guns onboard is not safe. Taking by force is not safe, either, bit I am supprised that the verbal attempt -- and then more -- was not made.
Aug 23, 2018, 1:20 am
#30
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Wasn't there a Three's Company episode where Jack thought the guy next to him was a hijacker when he saw the FAM's gun?
If the FAM did not follow protocol and made the crew suspicious, then you can't blame the crew. It does not hurt to be careful nowadays.
If the FAM did not follow protocol and made the crew suspicious, then you can't blame the crew. It does not hurt to be careful nowadays.