Can Non Revs Standbys do the equivalent of EXTRASEAT?
Aug 11, 2018, 1:46 pm
#16
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: LAX/FAO
Posts: 355
Definitely not new. I flew as a dependent NRSA throughout the 70s, 80s and early 90s and F was more than Y. I *think* I remember my dad saying it was twice the cost of economy. Whatever the difference was, it certainly wasn't enough to deter us from always listing for F. And at that time, there was no minimum age for F (but we were certainly expected to behave and be nicely dressed).
Aug 11, 2018, 1:50 pm
#17
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: What I write is my opinion alone..don't read into it anything not written.
Posts: 9,685
Aug 11, 2018, 1:51 pm
#18
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: What I write is my opinion alone..don't read into it anything not written.
Posts: 9,685
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No money grab at all. UAL does not charge non-revs a fee to sit in a higher cabin domestically. The only fees/taxes collected are when non-revs are departing international cities (all cabins). They are really airport or country departure? taxes. So whether I travel in coach or first class from an international airport, only then will a fee be charged. Deduction will vary, for example, LHR and FRA are much higher than SIN or TPE. Delta is the same.
No money grab at all. UAL does not charge non-revs a fee to sit in a higher cabin domestically. The only fees/taxes collected are when non-revs are departing international cities (all cabins). They are really airport or country departure? taxes. So whether I travel in coach or first class from an international airport, only then will a fee be charged. Deduction will vary, for example, LHR and FRA are much higher than SIN or TPE. Delta is the same.
Aug 11, 2018, 2:43 pm
#19
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Somewhere I've Driven To
Programs: HiltonHonors, IHG Hotels, DL Skymiles
Posts: 2,070
Yes, okay, if you mean imputed income tax charges ? Otherwise, maybe I'm missing something here as I have not been able to get the benefit of a F-class seat on a domestic flight for quite a while. I'm right now hunting down non-rev fees on UA's employee website.....to be continued.....
Got it......DOMESTIC = $0 for retirees regardless of years of service.......and $0 (active employees) with 25 or more years of service. Otherwise, yes you are right that there are some charges - the operative expression being "with 25 years or more of service" versus "less than 25 years of service". INTERNATIONALLY quotes "Service Charge waived with 25 or more years of service to the company" (includes footnote that the pass rider will still pay the applicable departure and other airport/regulatory taxes and fees".
Sorry, did not mean to confuse the issue, I meet the 25+ years of service.
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Aug 11, 2018 at 3:05 pm Reason: merging consecutive posts by same member
Aug 11, 2018, 2:56 pm
#20
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: LAX and LHR. UA lifetime Gold 1.9MM 1K , DL Gold Medallion, HHonors Gold, Marriott Gold, Avis President's Club
Posts: 3,592
Ok, so now we think we know how it works on domestic flights. Perhaps someone would like to tell us about international flights. Virtually every time i fly across the Atlantic (i.e. 10-20 times each year) I see non-revs waitisted for Y and J (and F, if there is an F cabin). And guess what, they always end up in the highest available cabin, even if there are rev pax on the waitlist for upgrades or on standby for biz seats. That's what people perceive as wrong. So all this stuff about having to wait until T-15 and then getting the dregs seems to be how it is supposed to work but in practice doesn't.
Aug 11, 2018, 3:09 pm
#21
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Somewhere I've Driven To
Programs: HiltonHonors, IHG Hotels, DL Skymiles
Posts: 2,070
Ok, so now we think we know how it works on domestic flights. Perhaps someone would like to tell us about international flights. Virtually every time i fly across the Atlantic (i.e. 10-20 times each year) I see non-revs waitisted for Y and J (and F, if there is an F cabin). And guess what, they always end up in the highest available cabin, even if there are rev pax on the waitlist for upgrades or on standby for biz seats. That's what people perceive as wrong. So all this stuff about having to wait until T-15 and then getting the dregs seems to be how it is supposed to work but in practice doesn't.
Sorry, not going to expound as there are several threads (beaten to death) about this "debate"......it is done correctly for non-revs 99.9% of the time. Shenanigans can/does happen but is very risky.....loss of benefits or a job.
Aug 11, 2018, 3:42 pm
#22
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: BNA
Programs: HH Gold. (Former) UA PP, DL PM, PC Plat
Posts: 8,178
I have no idea. This is the way it was when I was hired. UA and CO had different programs prior to the merge. This is the system that came out of the merger.
Travel benefits are not negotiated. They are not in the employee group's contract. All our contract says is that us pilots will have the same travel benefits as are given to the rest of the employees.
Yes, they do. Had a deduction on my last paycheck for a FC seat on an ORD-BNA flight.
It is not taxes, either. It is a service charge. Taxes can accrue on buddy passes (which aren't free either and come in a limited supply) but only if the fee for the pass is less the applicable ZED fare, which they often aren't. I've used buddy passes only a few times and the fee was never below the ZED fare so no taxes, nor imputed income, accrued.
Employees are often more willing to pay the fee for the upgrade on the longhaul flights so a much higher percentage of pass riders list for the highest cabin. Pass riders are cleared into the higher cabin more frequently on these flights, it's rare domestically, because of the upgrade rules for revenue passengers. You don't have the free CPUs so a revenue passenger would have to support the upgrade with certificates, miles, or cash. Some do, many don't. Pass-riders are always below revenue passengers for upgrade. Same for E+. If a revenue passenger wants the seat, and is willing to support it per the applicable rules, the revenue passenger gets the seat. We get what's left over. Sometimes it's a really good seat; sometimes it's the middle seat in the last row of economy.
It is not taxes, either. It is a service charge. Taxes can accrue on buddy passes (which aren't free either and come in a limited supply) but only if the fee for the pass is less the applicable ZED fare, which they often aren't. I've used buddy passes only a few times and the fee was never below the ZED fare so no taxes, nor imputed income, accrued.
Virtually every time i fly across the Atlantic (i.e. 10-20 times each year) I see non-revs waitisted for Y and J (and F, if there is an F cabin). And guess what, they always end up in the highest available cabin, even if there are rev pax on the waitlist for upgrades or on standby for biz seats.
Aug 11, 2018, 7:20 pm
#23
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Somewhere I've Driven To
Programs: HiltonHonors, IHG Hotels, DL Skymiles
Posts: 2,070
I have no idea. This is the way it was when I was hired. UA and CO had different programs prior to the merge. This is the system that came out of the merger.
Travel benefits are not negotiated. They are not in the employee group's contract. All our contract says is that us pilots will have the same travel benefits as are given to the rest of the employees.
Yes, they do. Had a deduction on my last paycheck for a FC seat on an ORD-BNA flight.
It is not taxes, either. It is a service charge. Taxes can accrue on buddy passes (which aren't free either and come in a limited supply) but only if the fee for the pass is less the applicable ZED fare, which they often aren't. I've used buddy passes only a few times and the fee was never below the ZED fare so no taxes, nor imputed income, accrued.
Travel benefits are not negotiated. They are not in the employee group's contract. All our contract says is that us pilots will have the same travel benefits as are given to the rest of the employees.
Yes, they do. Had a deduction on my last paycheck for a FC seat on an ORD-BNA flight.
It is not taxes, either. It is a service charge. Taxes can accrue on buddy passes (which aren't free either and come in a limited supply) but only if the fee for the pass is less the applicable ZED fare, which they often aren't. I've used buddy passes only a few times and the fee was never below the ZED fare so no taxes, nor imputed income, accrued.
This has been corrected/clarified by me - see comment #19 . Retirees and employees with 25+ years of service get the fees waived, otherwise, yes, others are charged a fee/service charge.
Aug 11, 2018, 8:28 pm
#24
Join Date: Jul 2013
Programs: DYKWIA, But I'm a "Diamond Guest" UA 1K/2MM
Posts: 2,251
Note that there are other people who appear on both (or all three) lists that will get a seat before upgraders -- e.g. J or F class passengers who mis-connected from another flight, positive space employees etc.
What gets confusing is that the upgrade list for Global First is typically empty, so the empty seats go to NRSAs, even if the Business class upgrade list is a mile long. I've been on many a flight where 8 NRSAs went into Global First and not a single person on the 20+ Biz class upgrade list got upgraded. That always bugged me.