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787-9 - is it Business First or Polaris First?

787-9 - is it Business First or Polaris First?

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Old Jul 31, 18, 12:05 pm
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787-9 - is it Business First or Polaris First?

I am looking into whether or not i want to upgrade into the business first cabin for a Hou-Syd long haul.

I was told the following by United. Is this correct?
Our 787 are a two cabin aircraft a economy cabin and a upper cabin right now we have aircraft that will either have a Business First class or a United Polaris first class, Unfortunately the aircraft are not assigned until the day before departure. Until then you won't know what type of cabin your aircraft will have. I apologized for not being able to answer your question with certainty.


The reason for the inquiry is that i need to know if the seats allow for a child seat. Im told that the seats wont work in United Polaris First Class, but they are fine in Business First. Right now the aircraft says its Business First, but does this typically change? Obviously if it does then i will simply have to not upgrade as i cant risk upgrading and then being in a seat that will not allow it. Just curious others experiences on this. Wanted to post this here as opposed to the child forum since there is more knowledge here regarding aircrafts.

Thanks!
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Old Jul 31, 18, 12:18 pm
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For 787, there is no first class cabin for international travel. So, only Polaris business seats are available. Your information is outdated. For B772 (not B773), there is Polaris first and Polaris business for those yet to be converted aircraft.
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Old Jul 31, 18, 12:18 pm
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Originally Posted by njxbean View Post
I am looking into whether or not i want to upgrade into the business first cabin for a Hou-Syd long haul.

I was told the following by United. Is this correct?




The reason for the inquiry is that i need to know if the seats allow for a child seat. Im told that the seats wont work in United Polaris First Class, but they are fine in Business First. Right now the aircraft says its Business First, but does this typically change? Obviously if it does then i will simply have to not upgrade as i cant risk upgrading and then being in a seat that will not allow it. Just curious others experiences on this. Wanted to post this here as opposed to the child forum since there is more knowledge here regarding aircrafts.

Thanks!
The 787-9 has Polaris Business and will not have Polaris First. UA is extremely unlikely to put a three-cabin plane on that route, and, if they did, you wouldn't be in Polaris First anyway; you'd still be in Polaris Business.

I have no idea why the UA Travel with Children page lists a Polaris First cabin on a 787; they've never had one.
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Old Jul 31, 18, 12:23 pm
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Originally Posted by jsloan View Post
The 787-9 has Polaris Business and will not have Polaris First. UA is extremely unlikely to put a three-cabin plane on that route, and, if they did, you wouldn't be in Polaris First anyway; you'd still be in Polaris Business.

I have no idea why the UA Travel with Children page lists a Polaris First cabin on a 787; they've never had one.
I actually got that information from a United rep. Sigh.

Originally Posted by Kmxu View Post
For 787, there is no first class cabin for international travel. So, only Polaris business seats are available. Your information is outdated. For B772 (not B773), there is Polaris first and Polaris business for those yet to be converted aircraft.
Thanks. This was information direct from United. Now the flight is in December, so i suppose this could change?

Last edited by WineCountryUA; Jul 31, 18 at 1:28 pm Reason: merging consecutive posts by same member
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Old Jul 31, 18, 12:24 pm
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Originally Posted by njxbean View Post
Thanks. This was information direct from United. Now the flight is in December, so i suppose this could change?
UA has never put a three-cabin plane on that route; I'm not sure that their 772ER has the range for it.

Even if they did, it wouldn't matter -- you wouldn't be seated in Polaris First with a business class ticket.
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Old Jul 31, 18, 12:25 pm
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It is unlikely a 777-200 or even a 777-300 could make IAH-SYD without a severe payload restriction, so expect a 787 with Polaris business.
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Old Jul 31, 18, 12:27 pm
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Originally Posted by njxbean View Post
I was told the following by United. Is this correct?
It is grossly inaccurate.

To echo prior comments, the aircraft on this route will be the 789 with a business class cabin arranged in a 2-2-2 layout.
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Old Jul 31, 18, 12:36 pm
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It will be Polaris Business Class. There is no longer BusinessFirst, and there is no Polaris First in two cabin 787s. (Polaris First is being phased out in general.) My guess is that you are confused by the statement on the United website that say you cannot use car seats "in United Polaris® first class on 767, 777 and 787 aircraft." I think United is using shorthand for the premium cabin when it says "first class," and you will not be able to use a car seat in the Polaris cabin of the 787.

I am almost certain that the FAA rule for car seats requires that the airplane seat (NOT the car seat) be forward facing. The Polaris seats on the 787 are at an angle and thus not forward facing in relation to the fuselage. If you could find an alternate flight with a 777 that has forward facing seats available, then you may be able to use the car seat.

How old and big is your child? There are fixed bassinets in Row 6 of the Polaris Business cabin on the 789. I am having trouble posting a link, but if you Google "liveandletsfly 787-9 review london to los angeles," the first hit is a blog review that will show you the bassinet. It would only work for an infant, probably six months or younger.
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Old Jul 31, 18, 12:45 pm
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Originally Posted by alf0906 View Post
It will be Polaris Business Class. There is no longer BusinessFirst, and there is no Polaris First in two cabin 787s. (Polaris First is being phased out in general.) My guess is that you are confused by the statement on the United website that say you cannot use car seats "in United Polaris® first class on 767, 777 and 787 aircraft." I think United is using shorthand for the premium cabin when it says "first class," and you will not be able to use a car seat in the Polaris cabin of the 787.

I am almost certain that the FAA rule for car seats requires that the airplane seat (NOT the car seat) be forward facing. The Polaris seats on the 787 are at an angle and thus not forward facing in relation to the fuselage. If you could find an alternate flight with a 777 that has forward facing seats available, then you may be able to use the car seat.

How old and big is your child? There are fixed bassinets in Row 6 of the Polaris Business cabin on the 789. I am having trouble posting a link, but if you Google "liveandletsfly 787-9 review london to los angeles," the first hit is a blog review that will show you the bassinet. It would only work for an infant, probably six months or younger.
Per United:
Child safety seats or restraint systems are also not permitted in first class on three-cabin 767 or 777-200 aircraft, on 757-200 aircraft with rear-facing seats
They dont mention forward facing seats on an angle. Where are you seeing this? This would definitely be something i need to consider if true.

Also we wouldn't be able to do a bassinet as he will be 1 year old by then.

Thanks for the great responses thus far. i knew i would get better info here than from UA sigh.
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Old Jul 31, 18, 12:45 pm
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Originally Posted by alf0906 View Post
I think United is using shorthand for the premium cabin when it says "first class," and you will not be able to use a car seat in the Polaris cabin of the 787.
I think the page, as written, is borderline incomprehensible. I wouldn't jump to any conclusions.

I think you're reading way too much into "forward facing." The seats in the 787-9 are forward facing for any reasonable definition of the words. The intent is to prevent the seats from being used in an environment where the seat provides no protection in the case of a sudden deceleration.

I believe the prohibition against using the seats in Polaris First is due to the shoulder harness -- which makes me a little surprised that they're not prohibited in the 77W and new retrofits, to be honest.
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Old Jul 31, 18, 12:46 pm
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Originally Posted by njxbean View Post
I am looking into whether or not i want to upgrade into the business first cabin for a Hou-Syd long haul.

I was told the following by United. Is this correct?




The reason for the inquiry is that i need to know if the seats allow for a child seat. Im told that the seats wont work in United Polaris First Class, but they are fine in Business First. Right now the aircraft says its Business First, but does this typically change? Obviously if it does then i will simply have to not upgrade as i cant risk upgrading and then being in a seat that will not allow it. Just curious others experiences on this. Wanted to post this here as opposed to the child forum since there is more knowledge here regarding aircrafts.

Thanks!
If you have a toddler, you could use the CARES harness, it will work on the business seat.
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Old Jul 31, 18, 12:48 pm
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Originally Posted by alf0906 View Post
It will be Polaris Business Class. There is no longer BusinessFirst, and there is no Polaris First in two cabin 787s. (Polaris First is being phased out in general.) My guess is that you are confused by the statement on the United website that say you cannot use car seats "in United Polaris® first class on 767, 777 and 787 aircraft." I think United is using shorthand for the premium cabin when it says "first class," and you will not be able to use a car seat in the Polaris cabin of the 787.

I am almost certain that the FAA rule for car seats requires that the airplane seat (NOT the car seat) be forward facing. The Polaris seats on the 787 are at an angle and thus not forward facing in relation to the fuselage. If you could find an alternate flight with a 777 that has forward facing seats available, then you may be able to use the car seat.

How old and big is your child? There are fixed bassinets in Row 6 of the Polaris Business cabin on the 789. I am having trouble posting a link, but if you Google "liveandletsfly 787-9 review london to los angeles," the first hit is a blog review that will show you the bassinet. It would only work for an infant, probably six months or younger.
The aircraft seat can be up to 18* off center and still allow a car seat per the FAA. Does anyone know what angle the Polaris seats would be on this route?
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Old Jul 31, 18, 1:23 pm
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Originally Posted by jsloan View Post
I think the page, as written, is borderline incomprehensible. I wouldn't jump to any conclusions.

I think you're reading way too much into "forward facing." The seats in the 787-9 are forward facing for any reasonable definition of the words. The intent is to prevent the seats from being used in an environment where the seat provides no protection in the case of a sudden deceleration.

I believe the prohibition against using the seats in Polaris First is due to the shoulder harness -- which makes me a little surprised that they're not prohibited in the 77W and new retrofits, to be honest.
On your first point, I agree that the page is borderline incomprehensible, but I don't know what other conclusion there is given that the 788 and 789 are both two cabin planes.

On your second point, I would disagree about "any reasonable definition." Federal regulations often provide a definition that is contrary to "any reasonable definition." :-) Someone took the time to look it up, seat must not be angled more than 18*.

You may be right that the shoulder harness is an issue as well.
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Old Jul 31, 18, 1:32 pm
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Originally Posted by jsloan View Post
.... I believe the prohibition against using the seats in Polaris First is due to the shoulder harness -- which makes me a little surprised that they're not prohibited in the 77W and new retrofits, to be honest.
Does not that also include those with air bags?
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Old Jul 31, 18, 1:37 pm
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Originally Posted by Becca1007 View Post
If you have a toddler, you could use the CARES harness, it will work on the business seat.
Thanks for the response. We were actually looking at this. I believe he has to be 22lbs to use CARES(he is 9 months now and ~19 lbs so he should make it but it will be close). So i want to cover all options. I guess we need to start feeding the kid more!
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