"Horny" Passenger Allegedly Molested Women on UA Flight
Jul 11, 2018, 12:28 am
#31
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: SAN
Programs: 1K (since 2008), *G (since 1990), 1MM
Posts: 3,218
Little or none of the above has any relevance to this situation. Taking the story at face value, the woman was relocated after she complained to the FA and then the purser, and yet, in a prior post above, you stated that you believe this lawsuit has merit. Why should United have to shell out money for something a third party did, when United took action as soon as it received the complaint? That makes no sense.
My comments were to help provide you the context that many women are not brought up to confront males as you seemed to think any woman would confront a man sexually assaulting her.
Yes, I am watching the case with great concern as I think the female passenger is in the position where people want to blame the victim.
Jul 11, 2018, 12:37 am
#32
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Miami, Florida
Programs: AA ExPlat, Hyatt Globalist, IHG Spire, Hilton Gold
Posts: 4,009
Actually the FA told her to sort it out with the FedEx pilot, when from the report the FedEx pilot had already made comments to the FA. So you think that was acceptable behavior from a United staff member? It took the purser to resolve the situation. Yes, based on the two reports, I believe United should have done something sooner
and ensured the plane was met by the police after a report of a sexual assault. Hopefully the next incident they would fix the situation sooner - one thing that comes to mind is that a passenger sexually assaulting another passenger (or a crew member) is met by the police on arrival and not have to wait for the passenger to report it to the authorities.
My comments were to help provide you the context that many women are not brought up to confront males as you seemed to think any woman would confront a man sexually assaulting her.
Yes, I am watching the case with great concern as I think the female passenger is in the position where people want to blame the victim.
Jul 11, 2018, 1:51 am
#33
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: HNL
Programs: UA GS4MM, MR LT Plat, Hilton Gold
Posts: 6,447
Typical money-grab in our screwed-up legal system. Taking the linked story at face value, the woman didn't take any action until after the second or third incident, and she was moved before anything else happened. (The FA might have been wrong to tell her to go back and talk to the guy, but that was immediately mooted by the purser's actions.)
Unless there were corroborating witnesses, this is a classic he said, she said. Had United taken action against the male, they'd be getting sued by him.
Unless there were corroborating witnesses, this is a classic he said, she said. Had United taken action against the male, they'd be getting sued by him.
Jul 11, 2018, 4:11 am
#34
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: jfk area
Programs: AA platinum; 2MM AA, Delta Diamond, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 10,291
I spent 20 days in April as a juror on a medical malpractice suit. In the end I disagreed with my fellow jury members, but the plaintiff apparently worried about positive outcome. They settled. As a jury we we're planning to award 6x the settlement. IMHO Dowling should win in a civil lawsuit.
Jul 11, 2018, 4:23 am
#35
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: jfk area
Programs: AA platinum; 2MM AA, Delta Diamond, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 10,291
I know someone who's SO was sexually assaulted and all I can advise is that the passenger is right to go after United and FedEx, but should aim for a lot more than $75k. She lost her criminal case. We don't know all the facts but based on the OP's post United didn't exactly act in a proactive way here to put a stop to this after round one which is shameful, but again we don't know all the facts. These sorts of incidents can ruin people's lives forever, sadly in the case of the victim and unfortunately in the case of the FedEx pilot, and another big scratch on United's reputation. Only people who win here are the attorneys.
You can pursue a civil and and a criminal case. The criminal case would be against the FedEx pilot. The civil litigation against United could be handled through a lawsuit and settled in mediation or other ways.
You can pursue a civil and and a criminal case. The criminal case would be against the FedEx pilot. The civil litigation against United could be handled through a lawsuit and settled in mediation or other ways.
Jul 11, 2018, 6:51 am
#36
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: ORD/MDW
Programs: BA/AA/AS/B6/WN/ UA/HH/MR and more like 'em but most felicitously & importantly MUCCI
Posts: 19,719
Jul 11, 2018, 6:53 am
#37
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: NYC
Programs: UA MileagePlus 2MM
Posts: 1,567
Correct!
The day of the alleged 'departure from medical norms" took place 10 years before it got to court, in my case so i get the sense this was not the first trial. The plaintiff's attorney persuaded his clients to take a negotiated settlement minutes before the jury was to render it's verdict. I doubt this case was going to be appealed, but in general you may be right.
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Jul 11, 2018 at 10:50 am Reason: merging consecutive posts by same member
Jul 11, 2018, 8:14 am
#38
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: MFR
Programs: UA 1K 1.9MM, Hilton Gold, Marriott Gold
Posts: 2,883
Sadly, hindsight is 20/20, and the comment about freezing up (i.e. "flight, fight, or freeze" is spot-on), but if she could could go back in time to a moment before the assault, this is what she should have done:
I am appalled that the FA told the victim to go back to her seat and work it out with her assailant.
I am appalled that the FA told the victim to go back to her seat and work it out with her assailant.
I’m already working on my Five Point Palm Exploding Heart Technique
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Jul 11, 2018 at 10:50 am Reason: repaired quote
Jul 11, 2018, 8:33 am
#39
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: PHL
Programs: AA EXP, HH Diamond, Owner of 2,000 TWA shares
Posts: 812
Wow. So the pilot uses the same distinct and vulgar language to both the PAX and a FA. The pilot admits to pounding 4 drinks while on Ambien (directions clearly say no to do that). Pilot LOSES HIS JOB at FedEx after their internal investigation. And, get this, nowhere does it mention that the pilot denies the allegations. And you're saying it's a "made up story"?
Jul 11, 2018, 8:40 am
#40
Join Date: Oct 2009
Programs: UA 1K, Hilton ♦ , Hyatt Carbonado, Wyndham ♦, Marriott PE, "Stinking Bum" elsewhere.
Posts: 4,998
Alcohol Again A Factor.
I am sure I am going to be flamed, but I think it would be reasonable to limit each pax to 2 drinks. This guy was obviously lit and that exacerbated the problem. There could be liability from UA acting as a bartender in the sky and over-serving this guy.
I experienced an incident once where a married co-worker became handsy after drinking too much. I had to forcibly restrain them from grabbing my crotch and butt.
I experienced an incident once where a married co-worker became handsy after drinking too much. I had to forcibly restrain them from grabbing my crotch and butt.
Jul 11, 2018, 10:35 am
#41
Join Date: Feb 2008
Programs: 6 year GS, now 2MM Jeff-ugee, *wood LTPlt, SkyPeso PLT
Posts: 6,526
Wow. So the pilot uses the same distinct and vulgar language to both the PAX and a FA. The pilot admits to pounding 4 drinks while on Ambien (directions clearly say no to do that). Pilot LOSES HIS JOB at FedEx after their internal investigation. And, get this, nowhere does it mention that the pilot denies the allegations. And you're saying it's a "made up story"?
I might add that a $75K demand does not seem to me to be the damages, but rather just a pleading of meeting federal court diversity jurisdiction (you can only be in federal court if you have parties from different states and the amount at issue is over $75,000). Press reports often get this kind of thing wrong. My guess is she is actually going to seek (and recover) far more....
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Jul 11, 2018 at 10:47 am Reason: discuss the issue;not the poster(s)
Jul 11, 2018, 10:45 am
#42
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: HNL
Programs: UA GS4MM, MR LT Plat, Hilton Gold
Posts: 6,447
My point is, if I were on the jury, the story as I know it, wouldn't have me vote for any damages.
Jul 11, 2018, 11:26 am
#43
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 100,404
Sooner, when? The passenger apparently complained to the FA and then immediately complained to the purser afterward, with the purser moving the passenger to a different seat. You're telling me that the FA's poor answer is worth $75,000, when the problem was resolved a few minutes later by the person with the actual authority to change people's seats on a full plane?
For a he said, she said with, apparently, no corroborating witnesses, why would or should this be the airline's choice and not the (alleged) victim's?
And? If the victim doesn't say anything, how is anything supposed to happen? Is United supposed to have observers posted throughout the cabin looking for such instances?
I'm blaming the victim for blaming United for something United had no involvement with and no control over. The alleged victim here suffered no further harm after she brought the situation to United's attention. She should be suing the ex-FedEx pilot and no one else.
For a he said, she said with, apparently, no corroborating witnesses, why would or should this be the airline's choice and not the (alleged) victim's?
And? If the victim doesn't say anything, how is anything supposed to happen? Is United supposed to have observers posted throughout the cabin looking for such instances?
I'm blaming the victim for blaming United for something United had no involvement with and no control over. The alleged victim here suffered no further harm after she brought the situation to United's attention. She should be suing the ex-FedEx pilot and no one else.
This wasn't just a "problem" that "was resolved." She was allegedly sexually assaulted three times. It's certainly not true that allowing her to change seats makes it like nothing ever happened.
Jul 11, 2018, 11:30 am
#44
Join Date: Oct 2015
Programs: SWA CP, UA MP, Hilton G, SPG G
Posts: 69
its dark, red eye flight at night-how could anyone know until she notified them? Is United now going to be required to do background checks on all the passengers? or have security guards with flash lights patrolling the planes?
The blame falls on FEDEX pilot and nobody else.
Jul 11, 2018, 12:40 pm
#45
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: PHL
Programs: AA EXP, HH Diamond, Owner of 2,000 TWA shares
Posts: 812
Yes, the largest pilot's union in the world will let an employer fire a guy " simply" as a "PR move".
Last edited by Uncle Nonny; Jul 11, 2018 at 1:09 pm