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App display of early cleared upgrades changed? Waitlists on gate monitors going away?

App display of early cleared upgrades changed? Waitlists on gate monitors going away?

Old Jun 8, 2018, 11:25 am
  #46  
 
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Originally Posted by drewguy
While I agree with information, from a practical standpoint the information isn't relevant. If your upgrade cleared before T-24 for whatever reason, when you check in you'll have your upgraded seat. If you haven't been upgraded yet, then you'll show on a list as awaiting an upgrade or upgraded. Only those pax really have a *need* to consult the list. For everyone else it's just curiousity.
Thank you! Finally, a voice of reason.

Delta doesn't even show you upgrade lists unless you're on that flight. I bet some people here on the UA forum look at upgrade lists all even if they aren't on it just for sh*ts and giggles....
My point has always been, that's not the purpose of the upgrade list.
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Old Jun 8, 2018, 11:35 am
  #47  
 
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If permanent this would be frustrating.
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Old Jun 8, 2018, 11:35 am
  #48  
 
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Originally Posted by DetroitFlyer

So do you still think AA's upgrade list is better? It doesn't even show remaining seats...


Now I'm stumped. When did I say that AA's upgrade list was better? Were you answering that part to someone else?
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Old Jun 8, 2018, 11:39 am
  #49  
 
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Originally Posted by LAXOGG
...The other item of note is all of my frequented airports disappeared form my Search for Flights tab on the Flight status portion of the app. Instead 11 airport that I have never traveled to showed up. Most of the airports aren't even serviced by UA
Same here. I didn't recognize most of their airports and all my frequented airports were gone. I had to delete them all and start over. That said, since you can't delete individual cities, I now have the cities I'm traveling to the most at the top of the list (which was very long before).
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Old Jun 8, 2018, 11:41 am
  #50  
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Originally Posted by DetroitFlyer
I don't think this is even close to an accurate measure of your chances. How does the fact that showing 10 people cleared out of 20 seats (at say 18 hours before departure) give you any indication that you're likely to clear?
It tells you whether they've run sweeps at the windows. That's critical information for gauging upgrade odds inside of T-120.

Just because you don't find the information valuable doesn't mean that it's not.
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Old Jun 8, 2018, 11:46 am
  #51  
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Originally Posted by drewguy
While I agree with information, from a practical standpoint the information isn't relevant. If your upgrade cleared before T-24 for whatever reason, when you check in you'll have your upgraded seat. If you haven't been upgraded yet, then you'll show on a list as awaiting an upgrade or upgraded. Only those pax really have a *need* to consult the list. For everyone else it's just curiousity.
It's relevant for judging eventual clearing probabilities, especially when UA does clearances at the windows. It's also relevant if you care which F seat you get; I have much more success getting the seat that I want by selecting it as soon as I realize I'm upgraded.

Originally Posted by joe_miami
The "possible" "benefit to United" is obvious: United assuredly doesn't want people playing SDC games for purposes of scoring upgrades, and United is likely to sell more upgrades at or before check-in if people believe their upgrade odds are lower.
Why should UA care if people are SDC'ing to get upgraded? They were going to upgrade somebody anyway. The only reason an SDC would net an upgrade is if the SDC'ing passenger has a higher status / fare class than somebody on the waitlist; UA presumably is happy to reward that person's loyalty.

And, the "sell more TODs" sword cuts both ways -- people are less likely to strive for UA status if they feel they'll never be upgraded. You can see that attitude already on this forum, especially from SFO-based passengers. Presumably, UA would rather keep their business than lose it to the competition.
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Old Jun 8, 2018, 11:53 am
  #52  
 
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Originally Posted by DetroitFlyer
I don't think this is even close to an accurate measure of your chances. How does the fact that showing 10 people cleared out of 20 seats (at say 18 hours before departure) give you any indication that you're likely to clear?
You don't have any info of the statuses and fare classes of those who did clear. Nor when those people cleared. Half of those 10 could have cleared at booking with a GPU.
Seriously? You must not spend enough time on FT...

If you fly enough CPU eligible routes, you can gather more than enough data points to form some semblance of an indication. As a Silver, I was usually in the bottom 25% of the upgrade list - and that held true for elite heavy routes like SFO<>ORD, as well as routes like ORD<>GRR. As a 1K, I'm routinely in the top 25% of the upgrade list. Couple those data points with my purchased fare class, and my upgrade confidence gets even stronger. I have cleared into first on all B, M and E fares I've purchased. I upfared on EWR-SFO to an E fare and my RPU cleared ahead of everyone else...

All that said, knowing how many people are on the upgrade list, how many have cleared, and how many open seats are left, I can make a pretty educated guess as to whether or not my CPU will clear.

I echo @jsloan - the more info the better.
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Old Jun 8, 2018, 11:58 am
  #53  
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Originally Posted by jsloan
Why should UA care if people are SDC'ing to get upgraded? They were going to upgrade somebody anyway. The only reason an SDC would net an upgrade is if the SDC'ing passenger has a higher status / fare class than somebody on the waitlist; UA presumably is happy to reward that person's loyalty.
But that's the thing: United doesn't actually want to upgrade anyone. If a person in E+ who doesn't believe he'll be upgraded SDCs at T-1 to a flight 3 hours later, as per an example someone mentioned above, that's one less upgrade and/or seat United can sell on the later flight.

And, the "sell more TODs" sword cuts both ways -- people are less likely to strive for UA status if they feel they'll never be upgraded. You can see that attitude already on this forum, especially from SFO-based passengers. Presumably, UA would rather keep their business than lose it to the competition.
SFO-based passengers are seeing fewer and fewer upgrades because the Bay Area is absolutely awash in cash. If the airlines have their way, the SFO situation will be the future systemwide, not a problem that needs fixing.

Again, I'm not trying to be an apologist for United. I noted my objection to the changes a couple days ago. But anyone expecting the current upgrade model to get any better over time is dreaming. Everything airlines have been doing in recent years has been with the goal of fully monetizing F and J.
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Old Jun 8, 2018, 12:02 pm
  #54  
 
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Originally Posted by LRMErnst
All that said, knowing how many people are on the upgrade list, how many have cleared, and how many open seats are left, I can make a pretty educated guess as to whether or not my CPU will clear.
This. Let's take a hypothetical flight from SFO - MCO. There might be 16 FC seats. And I know that three of them are still available at T-24. And let's say we have two flights, Flight A where ten people have been upgraded and three paid. Flight B where one person has been upgraded and 12 paid.

Previously, I could tell that Flight A is far more likely for me to clear as most of the GS and 1K have already gone through the upgrade system. With three seats available, my odds are good. Flight B is not so good. If only one has been upgraded, I can usually assume 1 GS (or more) would be ahead of me. I would choose flight A over flight B.

Now, both flights looks the same. All I see is that there are three seats available with no way of knowing what has been run in the upgrade.

Is this the end of the world? No. Is it a step back from previous data? Yes.
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Old Jun 8, 2018, 12:08 pm
  #55  
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Originally Posted by DawgmanOH
This. Let's take a hypothetical flight from SFO - MCO. There might be 16 FC seats. And I know that three of them are still available at T-24. And let's say we have two flights, Flight A where ten people have been upgraded and three paid. Flight B where one person has been upgraded and 12 paid.

Previously, I could tell that Flight A is far more likely for me to clear as most of the GS and 1K have already gone through the upgrade system. With three seats available, my odds are good. Flight B is not so good. If only one has been upgraded, I can usually assume 1 GS (or more) would be ahead of me. I would choose flight A over flight B.

Now, both flights looks the same. All I see is that there are three seats available with no way of knowing what has been run in the upgrade.

Is this the end of the world? No. Is it a step back from previous data? Yes.
I see your point, but isn't the E+ load an even better indicator at T-24, at least for domestic flights?
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Old Jun 8, 2018, 12:15 pm
  #56  
 
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What if UA showed the full upgrade list with people who are waiting, in the exact order they would clear? Isn't that better?
I feel like a lot of the "calculations" everyone's making here is because the actual list with people waiting isn't reliable since it only shows people who are checked in.

For example, if at T-24, I look at the standby list, it shows very few people on the list. Let's say I go ahead and check-in. I might be a 1K at position 2.
But if I check a few hours later, some GS and some other 1K get added to the list, only because they are now also checked in.

I personally would prefer UA show me the upgrade standby list at T-24 and tell me exactly what position I'm in. That would be a better way of telling me my upgrade odds, wouldn't it?
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Old Jun 8, 2018, 12:40 pm
  #57  
 
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Originally Posted by jsloan
This was my experience. I'm upgraded on one of my flights for tomorrow (cleared at T-96), but I wasn't on the list. Even after check-in, I'm not on the list. I thought it might be because I'm on an award (1K w/Explorer card), but it seems like it may be more widespread than that.
Same for me with my revenue NRT-EWR flight last Monday. I could see the upgrade list in my account on my laptop after OLCI, but my name wasn't there, even though I had used a GPU. I assume the new upgrade list will show "day of" upgrades only.

As someone who rarely uses a cell phone (I only have a primitive flip-phone), this is a definite downgrade for me.
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Old Jun 8, 2018, 1:11 pm
  #58  
 
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Originally Posted by jsloan
t's also relevant if you care which F seat you get; I have much more success getting the seat that I want by selecting it as soon as I realize I'm upgraded.
If you're checking the upgrade list for that you can just as easily check your reservation, which will show the seat you've been assigned. And then you're a couple of clicks closer to choosing a different seat.
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Old Jun 8, 2018, 1:47 pm
  #59  
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Originally Posted by DetroitFlyer
What if UA showed the full upgrade list with people who are waiting, in the exact order they would clear? Isn't that better?
That's better than we have at the moment. I would still want to know how many people had already cleared. If UA were going to show us the status and fare class of each person on the list, I could probably live without knowing how many have cleared, although I still wouldn't think that hiding that information was somehow good -- just less bad.

Originally Posted by DetroitFlyer
I feel like a lot of the "calculations" everyone's making here is because the actual list with people waiting isn't reliable since it only shows people who are checked in.
No, sorry, you're missing the point. Obviously you have to repeat the calculations as the flight approaches. However, by T-1, it's reasonably accurate. It's even more accurate if you've been able to see people clear day-by-day as the flight approaches.

Originally Posted by DetroitFlyer
For example, if at T-24, I look at the standby list, it shows very few people on the list. Let's say I go ahead and check-in. I might be a 1K at position 2.
But if I check a few hours later, some GS and some other 1K get added to the list, only because they are now also checked in.
That's accurate, but again, I know a lot if there are already 6 people cleared on the list vs. nobody.

Originally Posted by DetroitFlyer
I personally would prefer UA show me the upgrade standby list at T-24 and tell me exactly what position I'm in. That would be a better way of telling me my upgrade odds, wouldn't it?
Again, false dichotomy. I want both.

Originally Posted by joe_miami
But that's the thing: United doesn't actually want to upgrade anyone. If a person in E+ who doesn't believe he'll be upgraded SDCs at T-1 to a flight 3 hours later, as per an example someone mentioned above, that's one less upgrade and/or seat United can sell on the later flight.
No; if it's open for SDC, it's because RM doesn't think they'll sell the Y seat, and if the person successfully CPUs, they failed to sell the F seat too.

Originally Posted by joe_miami
SFO-based passengers are seeing fewer and fewer upgrades because the Bay Area is absolutely awash in cash. If the airlines have their way, the SFO situation will be the future systemwide, not a problem that needs fixing.
If that's the case, UA is really, really bad at business; they should be charging more for airfare from SFO, since apparently people have nothing better to do than to burn it.

Even DL, who started the monetization trend, has stated their goal is to sell 80% of the front cabin. As long as any one carrier still provides status-based upgrades, they'll all need to do it...

Originally Posted by joe_miami
Again, I'm not trying to be an apologist for United. I noted my objection to the changes a couple days ago. But anyone expecting the current upgrade model to get any better over time is dreaming. Everything airlines have been doing in recent years has been with the goal of fully monetizing F and J.
Not really. Fully monetizing F and J is a fool's errand in the US market. Keep in mind that the most expensive Y tickets on a flight are often 5x more expensive than the cheapest F tickets. Airlines will run themselves into the ground trying to sell $300 F tickets and leaving no place for the passenger on a $1500 Y ticket to sit up front. United is making money giving out upgrades, even if their current management seems to lose sight of that sometimes.

Originally Posted by drewguy
If you're checking the upgrade list for that you can just as easily check your reservation, which will show the seat you've been assigned. And then you're a couple of clicks closer to choosing a different seat.
The flight status page loads much faster than the reservation page on the app.
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Old Jun 8, 2018, 1:51 pm
  #60  
 
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Originally Posted by jsloan
That's better than we have at the moment. I would still want to know how many people had already cleared. If UA were going to show us the status and fare class of each person on the list, I could probably live without knowing how many have cleared, although I still wouldn't think that hiding that information was somehow good -- just less bad.
If UA were able to tell you that at T-1 you are #7 on the list, which in my suggestion, would include everyone who is eligible, and there are 3 seats left, why do you really even need to know that 5 others have already cleared ahead of time?
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