QF sector on RTW ticket

Old May 29, 2018, 8:30 am
  #1  
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QF sector on RTW ticket

I need to fly MEL to IAH in July, as part of a RTW ticket issued on UA stock. My options are MEL-LAX and then LAX-IAH, but we all know how much fun it is to enter USA and transfer to domestic in LAX.

My wife suggested MEL-SYD on QF domestic, and then UA 100 SYD IAH, which is nice, but a few questions arise:

1) Will I be able to get UA to include a QF domestic sector on the RTW?
2) If I put MEL SYD as a ground sector on the RTW fare, and buy the QF sector as a separate fare - can it still be on the same ticket/PNR? If not on the same PNR, it seems to me that QF won't interline, and then it doesn't work. (Can't use airside transfer and not enough time)
3) If I buy the MEL SYD sector in Y, and the RTW is C/Z, what the baggage allowance on the QF sector?

thanks
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Old May 29, 2018, 8:57 am
  #2  
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Originally Posted by sabbasolo
I need to fly MEL to IAH in July, as part of a RTW ticket issued on UA stock. My options are MEL-LAX and then LAX-IAH, but we all know how much fun it is to enter USA and transfer to domestic in LAX.

My wife suggested MEL-SYD on QF domestic, and then UA 100 SYD IAH, which is nice, but a few questions arise:

1) Will I be able to get UA to include a QF domestic sector on the RTW?
2) If I put MEL SYD as a ground sector on the RTW fare, and buy the QF sector as a separate fare - can it still be on the same ticket/PNR? If not on the same PNR, it seems to me that QF won't interline, and then it doesn't work. (Can't use airside transfer and not enough time)
3) If I buy the MEL SYD sector in Y, and the RTW is C/Z, what the baggage allowance on the QF sector?

thanks
1 - Maybe? If you can, you might not like the way it prices out. The RTW fares are pretty liberal in terms of combinations, and allow side trips with no restrictions. The problem is going to be finding a fare to cover MEL-SYD that UA can plate. This might require full Y (around USD$550). Basically, MEL-SYD would have to be counted as an embedded surface sector on the RTW fare and then as a one-way side-trip on the QF fare. And that assumes that you can get UA to sell you the ticket in the first place; they're not always keen to sell random non-*A flights.

2 - I don't see anything in the fare rules that would prohibit it from being on the same ticket, but that doesn't mean UA would sell it that way. Whether or not QF would interline across separate tickets is up to them.

3 - That's a very good question. If I had to guess, I'd expect it to be the Economy allowance for US-Australia travel, as that seems to be the most sensible way to combine the mixed classes of service with the US DOT rule that the luggage allowance has to be the same throughout the journey, but I'd defer to anyone who's actually tried it.
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Old May 29, 2018, 12:17 pm
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I'm a little confused on the original premise... how is I/D at LAX any worse than D/I at SYD? I've done MEL-LAX-xxx and haven't had any noticeable issues.

In re (1), I'm not super familiar with RTW fare construction, but I thought the whole ticket was covered by one (RTW) fare, and I don't see that it would not allow QF sectors intra-Australia. I don't think the MEL-SYD-IAH option would include an embedded surface sector.
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Old May 29, 2018, 12:25 pm
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Originally Posted by findark
In re (1), I'm not super familiar with RTW fare construction, but I thought the whole ticket was covered by one (RTW) fare, and I don't see that it would not allow QF sectors intra-Australia. I don't think the MEL-SYD-IAH option would include an embedded surface sector.
I'd expect that a Star Alliance RTW fare would only be bookable onto Star Alliance flights. I admit that I'm making an assumption there.

So, the embedded surface sector would be MEL-SYD, which would then be covered by a separately-fared (but jointly ticketed) one-way QF fare. You know how sometimes, when you put together a complicated itinerary into the ITA Matrix, it'll combine the legs in a non-obvious manner for faring? That's what I'd expect here.
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Old May 29, 2018, 12:28 pm
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Originally Posted by jsloan
I'd expect that a Star Alliance RTW fare would only be bookable onto Star Alliance flights. I admit that I'm making an assumption there.

So, the embedded surface sector would be MEL-SYD, which would then be covered by a separately-fared (but jointly ticketed) one-way QF fare. You know how sometimes, when you put together a complicated itinerary into the ITA Matrix, it'll combine the legs in a non-obvious manner for faring? That's what I'd expect here.
Ah, I was confused since OP has suggested the embedded surface sector in point (2). I don't know offhand, but it would seem a little odd if the RTW ticket is restricted to *A just because of coverage gaps like precisely this, but you very well might be right.

By the time you're doing something like that however, transiting LAX seems like an easy winner.
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Old May 29, 2018, 1:28 pm
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Originally Posted by findark
Ah, I was confused since OP has suggested the embedded surface sector in point (2). I don't know offhand, but it would seem a little odd if the RTW ticket is restricted to *A just because of coverage gaps like precisely this, but you very well might be right.
I wasn't able to get ITA to price a RTW itinerary, and the *A RTW tool suggested SYD-SIN-PER when I tried it, so... anecdotal evidence, admittedly. I'd want to contact an RTW ticketing specialist.
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Old May 29, 2018, 2:05 pm
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Originally Posted by jsloan
1 - Maybe? If you can, you might not like the way it prices out. The RTW fares are pretty liberal in terms of combinations, and allow side trips with no restrictions. The problem is going to be finding a fare to cover MEL-SYD that UA can plate. This might require full Y (around USD$550). Basically, MEL-SYD would have to be counted as an embedded surface sector on the RTW fare and then as a one-way side-trip on the QF fare. And that assumes that you can get UA to sell you the ticket in the first place; they're not always keen to sell random non-*A flights.

2 - I don't see anything in the fare rules that would prohibit it from being on the same ticket, but that doesn't mean UA would sell it that way. Whether or not QF would interline across separate tickets is up to them.
Are you reading the same RTW fare rules I am? YRWSTAR1 (for example LAX-LAX) looks like it isn't combinable with much of anything at all:

Code:
10.COMBINATIONS                                                 
    SINGLE/DOUBLE OPEN JAWS/ROUND TRIPS/CIRCLE TRIPS NOT        
    PERMITTED.                                                  
   END-ON-END                                                   
     END-ON-END COMBINATIONS NOT PERMITTED. VALIDATE ALL        
     FARE COMPONENTS. SIDE TRIPS NOT PERMITTED.                 
     END-ON-END NOTE -                                          
       ONE OF EACH OF AFRICA/ASIA/CHINA/EUROPE/AND              
       NORTH AMERICA/STAR ALLIANCE AIRPASS MAY BE ISSUED        
       ON A SEPARATE TICKET IN CONNECTION WITH A STAR           
       ALLIANCE RTW TICKET.
As such, with those fare rules, basically anything that isn't on the RTW fare would need to be on a separate ticket. You could theoretically have multiple tickets in the same PNR to make interlining bags across multiple tickets easier, but doing so tends to confuse agents and makes everything else about the itinerary harder to manage.

Ultimately, I think your life is going to be a lot easier if you just accept the LAX transfer.
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Old May 29, 2018, 2:23 pm
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Originally Posted by Sykes
Are you reading the same RTW fare rules I am? YRWSTAR1 (for example LAX-LAX) looks like it isn't combinable with much of anything at all:

As such, with those fare rules, basically anything that isn't on the RTW fare would need to be on a separate ticket. You could theoretically have multiple tickets in the same PNR to make interlining bags across multiple tickets easier, but doing so tends to confuse agents and makes everything else about the itinerary harder to manage.

Ultimately, I think your life is going to be a lot easier if you just accept the LAX transfer.
Wow, that's surprising. Apparently the rules are less restrictive for the cheaper fare (?). I had pulled up CRWSPCL, which lists "SIDE TRIPS PERMITTED WITH NO RESTRICTIONS." But when I looked at CRWSTAR1, I see the same thing you do -- side trips not permitted.

It's going to be really difficult to do an IAH RTW via Australia for under 26,000 miles though... and end-on-end is not permitted, so you wouldn't be able to tack on IAH-EWR or something to start the trip.

So, yes, I agree -- it looks like the realistic options are an LAX transit or a separate ticket on QF.

As for the ability to route on a non-*A carrier; the fare rules attempt to disallow non-*A codeshares, and they do require *A codes. So, the only way to route it on QF would be if you could find a *A codeshare for that leg that hadn't been explicitly excluded.
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Old May 29, 2018, 2:31 pm
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Originally Posted by sabbasolo
I need to fly MEL to IAH in July, as part of a RTW ticket issued on UA stock. My options are MEL-LAX and then LAX-IAH, but we all know how much fun it is to enter USA and transfer to domestic in LAX.

My wife suggested MEL-SYD on QF domestic, and then UA 100 SYD IAH, which is nice,.....
I happily pay good money to avoid D-->I and I-->D transfers at SYD

Air NZ flys to IAH. So MEL-AKL-IAH all on Air NZ is another option. Easy airside transfer at AKL. But no idea if schedule works for that.

Any flight that avoids SYD & LAX is better.
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Old May 29, 2018, 2:37 pm
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Originally Posted by jsloan
Wow, that's surprising. Apparently the rules are less restrictive for the cheaper fare (?). I had pulled up CRWSPCL, which lists "SIDE TRIPS PERMITTED WITH NO RESTRICTIONS." But when I looked at CRWSTAR1, I see the same thing you do -- side trips not permitted.
Hah, that's fascinating. I too wouldn't have expected the cheaper fare to be less restrictive.
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Old May 29, 2018, 11:13 pm
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Several of my trips to Australia and New Zealand on united 016 tickets have include options to travel QF flights SYD/AKL or SYD/CHC
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Old May 29, 2018, 11:20 pm
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Originally Posted by mikeyf
Several of my trips to Australia and New Zealand on united 016 tickets have include options to travel QF flights SYD/AKL or SYD/CHC
It's common to see QF flights on UA fares to Australia. However, OP is specifically looking for RTW travel, which uses a separate set of fares with its own rules, and those are intended to limit travel to *A only.
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Old May 29, 2018, 11:56 pm
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Originally Posted by Mwenenzi
I happily pay good money to avoid D-->I and I-->D transfers at SYD
D->I in Sydney isn't too bad, as long as you're connecting from QF, and everything is booked on one ticket (especially if you have luggage) - which is what the OP was looking for.

Yes, you need to take a bus - but it departs airside and is relatively quick. Certainly a better option than transferring in LAX from the MEL flight which requires getting yourself from TBIT to T7.

In both cases you need to re-clear security, so it's a wash. (via AKL, like you've said, does avoid that)

Last edited by docbert; May 30, 2018 at 12:10 am
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Old May 30, 2018, 3:08 am
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Thanks for the help and comments. Looking at the uncertainties of baggage interlining in this case, and chance of a delay leading to a missed connection, I have routed MEL-LAX-IAH. Indeed, the difference is not that great. I might well be over the QF baggage limits, and...

Remember also, that Australians don't have Global Entry, even though we let USA people use SmartGate - isn't life unfair?
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Old May 30, 2018, 6:10 am
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Originally Posted by sabbasolo
Thanks for the help and comments. Looking at the uncertainties of baggage interlining in this case, and chance of a delay leading to a missed connection, I have routed MEL-LAX-IAH. Indeed, the difference is not that great. I might well be over the QF baggage limits, and...

Remember also, that Australians don't have Global Entry, even though we let USA people use SmartGate - isn't life unfair?
Seriously, though, why not AKL as mentioned above? Solves both problems, no?
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