Chinese government plans to punish United for not listing Taiwan as "Taiwan, China"
May 4, 2018, 3:39 pm
#17
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: LAX/TPE
Programs: United 1K, JAL Sapphire, SPG Lifetime Platinum, National Executive Elite, Hertz PC, Avis PC
Posts: 42,199
More ICAO than IATA, but they don't have the jurisdiction to force an airline to list a city in a certain way on a public website or printed timetable or magazine map.
Last edited by WineCountryUA; May 4, 2018 at 8:14 pm Reason: merging consecutive posts by same member
May 4, 2018, 4:32 pm
#18
Join Date: Jul 2016
Programs: UA1K | *A Gold
Posts: 767
I had always assumed that all the airlines just followed the standard city codes/names that were provided by the IATA/ICAO or whatever international standards org to avoid this type of issue.
May 4, 2018, 4:46 pm
#19
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: NYC (Primarily EWR)
Programs: UA 1K / *G, Marriott Bonvoy Gold; Avis PC
Posts: 9,005
Is it possible that this is a power play / excuse for China to possibly kick out the US3 and give any China-US routes to their own flag carriers? Seems like an obscure / petty thing to get worked up about. I know the whole Taiwan debate is contentious, but usually I felt airspace stuff tended to get worked out somehow.
Would a possible consequence be that US3 could not fly over Chinese airspace to TPE? (not sure that they do on their current routes anwyways...)
Would a possible consequence be that US3 could not fly over Chinese airspace to TPE? (not sure that they do on their current routes anwyways...)
May 4, 2018, 8:41 pm
#20
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: LAX/TPE
Programs: United 1K, JAL Sapphire, SPG Lifetime Platinum, National Executive Elite, Hertz PC, Avis PC
Posts: 42,199
Right, the city codes are fixed by international agreement, but the issue with communist China is how Taipei (and other Taiwanese airports) are listed aside from the IATA code - for example, Taipei, Taiwan is the correct listing, but China wants carriers to show "Taipei, China". So far, all 3 US carriers presented their middle fingers, and most of the world has as well, the exceptions being BA, Etihad, Lufthansa and a small number of other carriers.
May 4, 2018, 9:13 pm
#21
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: 42.1% in PDX , 49.9% in PVG & 8% in the air somewhere
Programs: Marriott Ambassador Elite, UA 1K, AS MVP GLD 75K, DL Pt
Posts: 1,086
Seems just silly that UA with such a long history and extensive network in the Far East to make a statement and poke the Dragon, simply stupid business sense.
Last edited by WineCountryUA; May 4, 2018 at 10:03 pm Reason: OMNI content removed
May 5, 2018, 1:41 pm
#22
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: LAX/TPE
Programs: United 1K, JAL Sapphire, SPG Lifetime Platinum, National Executive Elite, Hertz PC, Avis PC
Posts: 42,199
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...nse/583679002/
Orwellian nonsense, indeed.
May 5, 2018, 3:18 pm
#23
Join Date: May 2001
Location: RNO, NV, USA.
Programs: UA 2MM
Posts: 5,062
May 5, 2018, 3:28 pm
#24
Moderator: United Airlines
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Plat 1.995MM, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott Plat/LT Gold, Hilton Silver, IHG Plat
Posts: 66,850
A reminder, as previously requested, let's stay focused on UA actions and/or UA impacts due to the "request". The regional and/or geopolitical underpinnings are clearly related but they are a topic for OMNI, not the UA Forum. Such OMNI posts have been deleted.
Topic Note
Understanding the general Mainland China / Taiwan issue is a significant issue of disagreement for some and the nature of the Mainland China government is a hot issue for others BUT as this is the United forum and we focus on just United issues. As such, we shall need to stay out of such political / OMNI issues.
WineCountryUA
UA coModerator
Understanding the general Mainland China / Taiwan issue is a significant issue of disagreement for some and the nature of the Mainland China government is a hot issue for others BUT as this is the United forum and we focus on just United issues. As such, we shall need to stay out of such political / OMNI issues.
WineCountryUA
UA coModerator
May 5, 2018, 3:38 pm
#25
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Houston
Programs: UA Plat, Marriott Gold
Posts: 12,693
May 5, 2018, 3:54 pm
#26
Join Date: Feb 2006
Programs: UA, Starwood, Priority Club, Hertz, Starbucks Gold Card
Posts: 3,952
My first U.S. passport circa 1990 contained a canceled China visa, because when my passport was originally made, the passport officer omitted "Republic of China" from my application and simply entered "TAIWAN" as my birthplace.The staple mark above that canceled China visa was from a slip of paper on which the valid visa was stamped. The Chinese immigration officer removed it upon my exit from China, so that there was no proof (prior to 2000, when I got a new passport with "China" as my birthplace) that I actually went to China with that passport.
China claims citizenship based on ancestry (jus sanguinis), not birthplace, so it's harder (and unproductive) for individuals like me to resist being subjected to Chinese law even though I am a citizen of a country half a world away. UA/DL/AA have more leeway to tell China to pound sand, but they're still subject to China's whims (and contradictions), if and whenever China chooses to be whimsical and contradictory. Nonetheless, this ticky-tack business over the Taiwan name has been going on for decades, and it won't be resolved even if UA bucks the line and kowtows to China's demand.
China claims citizenship based on ancestry (jus sanguinis), not birthplace, so it's harder (and unproductive) for individuals like me to resist being subjected to Chinese law even though I am a citizen of a country half a world away. UA/DL/AA have more leeway to tell China to pound sand, but they're still subject to China's whims (and contradictions), if and whenever China chooses to be whimsical and contradictory. Nonetheless, this ticky-tack business over the Taiwan name has been going on for decades, and it won't be resolved even if UA bucks the line and kowtows to China's demand.
May 15, 2018, 10:12 pm
#27
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: KHH, FUK, SNA
Programs: BR, UA 1k, CX
Posts: 1,181
It was Marriott - they initially complied with this nonsense, but after an uproar stateside, they changed their entry for Taipei and Taiwan back to where it was before - Delta received a letter around the same time and basically just ignored it. I'm sure United can do the same, but Delta's management is a little more aggressive and just sort of flipped them off....let's see if this is a Delta thing that United copies.
May 15, 2018, 10:14 pm
#28
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: GVA (Greater Vancouver Area)
Programs: DREAD Gold; UA 1.035MM; Bonvoy Au-197; PCC Elite+; CCC Elite+; MSC C-12; CWC Au-197; WoH Dis
Posts: 52,139
China came after The Gap today as well because they sold a T-shirt that didn't correspond to China's "official" map. It's basically extortion, but they're big enough to be able to carry through.
May 15, 2018, 11:14 pm
#29
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Washington DC
Programs: Delta DM CO PE OZ GE AMTRAK
Posts: 524
if it comes down to the worst, UA can just route all their chinese flights via tokyo and ANA takes over the connecting segments. I don't think chinese airlines have that luxury or close relationship with anyone to help them that way.
Last edited by WineCountryUA; May 15, 2018 at 11:37 pm Reason: removed response to deleted post (OT per Moderator note)
May 16, 2018, 12:21 am
#30
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2003
Programs: UA*Lifetime GS, Hyatt* Lifetime Globalist
Posts: 12,331
On the China end, NH still needs to apply additional slots at Chinese airports.
I don't think it is not just UA can just route their Chinese flights via Tokyo for NH....too many hurdles and ifs and buts.