Babyseat blocked recline

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Old Mar 19, 18, 11:31 am
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Originally Posted by docbert View Post
How about the Asiana crash in SFO a few years ago, or something of similar force to that one? I could very readily believe that such a seat could be the difference between life and death in a crash like that. (There was only one infant on that flight, who did survive).

Nobody expects a child seat to save every life in every crash - it's about increasing survivability and reducing injuries in at least some situations.
I’ll give you that because when I think of “crash” it’s MH or 4U and not the Hudson or Asiana.
Curious though (no sarcasm or snark) what’s the frequency of a significant injuries/no death crashes vs 100% loss?
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Old Mar 19, 18, 11:42 am
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It's a bummer and can probably be attributed to seats being crammed in so much. When all legroom was E+ legroom, you might have had your recline.
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Old Mar 19, 18, 12:05 pm
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Originally Posted by username View Post
Yes, definitely interesting. What does the contrast of the reactions tell us?

1 - VX forum readers hate babies? UA forum readers love babies?
Not true. I hate babies.
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Old Mar 19, 18, 12:41 pm
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Originally Posted by UTex09 View Post

Unfortunate situation for the OP, and anyone who has children can sympathize with the fact that those car seats (especially the rear facing versions) are BULKY. ...
i have kids anf i ve flown a lot with them. Not all of those carseats are bulky and if parents want to they can definitely buy a smaller seat that does not prevent other seats from reclining (aside from perhaps most tight rj seats..)
my guess is many parents who do not travel much have no idea that their oversized carseats designed for suv barely fit on airplane...
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Old Mar 19, 18, 2:05 pm
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Originally Posted by docbert View Post
Whilst I agree there's no right to a seat reclining, United at least does call out non-reclining seats, such as those in front of the exit rows, as being non-reclining on their seat map.

Thus anyone that has selected a specific seat on the website and NOT selected one of those seats would certainly have a reasonable expectation that their seat would recline.

I don't fly United often, but of my last 4 flights with them, I encountered 3 seats with problems. So my impression of United's seat map and various other descriptions of their products is that much it is wishful thinking on United's part. YMMV.

Originally Posted by useyourname View Post
The only thing a car seat would help with is turbulence. If it goes down, that 5 star safety rating isn't going to be much help in a blazing inferno/wreckage.
No, one of the main benefits of using a child's familiar safety seat is that the kid is likely to sleep better and fuss less during the flight because they are in a familiar situation. There's also hard landings, which in my experience occur more often on UA than other carriers. (especially at LAX, what is the issue with UA at LAX?)

Last edited by WineCountryUA; Mar 19, 18 at 2:45 pm Reason: merging consecutive posts by same member
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Old Mar 19, 18, 3:52 pm
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Originally Posted by SS255 View Post
2 Comments:

1. If there is not enough space between the seat containing the approved car seat and the seat in front to fully recline, then the rows are too close together. I'm surprised that the FAA would allow this, but what do I know?
I wonder if that same FAA approved car seat would have physically fit into a non-reclined seat on an airline with 28” seat pitch.
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Old Mar 19, 18, 4:04 pm
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Originally Posted by JVPhoto View Post
Curious though (no sarcasm or snark) what’s the frequency of a significant injuries/no death crashes vs 100% loss?
In this part of the world, a lot more of the former than the latter.

For example, the last US major (not counting regional carriers) to have a crash with fatalities was AA in November 2001. Even if you include regionals, without looking it up, I think you'd have to go back close to a decade to find one.
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Old Mar 19, 18, 4:18 pm
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Originally Posted by Kate Kilmer View Post
Hello:

First, please know that I'm not complaining about a baby's safety - I am always for a baby's safety above everything else.
My question is this - I sat on a United flight and my seat was in front of a baby who was seated in a car seat. The seat was positioned so the baby faced the back of the plane.
Positioning the seat in this manner is often more safe for the baby - and so should absolutely be positioned this way.
Because of this positioning, my seat was unable to recline - not even a little bit.
I wrote to United after my flight and they said "they were only responsible for my travel, and that a reclining seat is not guaranteed."
As a gesture, they did return a portion of my frequent flyer miles.
However, my question is this - doesn't the cost of my ticket include the full use of my seat, and a reclining one at that?
I'm just curious as to what my "rights' are as a paying passenger.
Thank you.
by law and rights, the baby comes first. I was on a flight and a guy refused to move his seat upright (while on the groun) and he got escorted from the plane

Originally Posted by 3Cforme View Post
The Feds have done the research. They're not amateurs. Review their work. (Your line of argument against child seats isn't going to work.)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14557157
the FAA encourages the usage of car seats. That report is by a group against it and they use flawed data. The national trauma data shows essentially no deaths (in normal wrecks) of infants appropriately car seated in middle of back seat.

the physics show that it is impossible to hold a baby I’d the plane hits an air pocket. Not deaths, but broken bones and concussions. Also the incidence of scald burns is greatly higher in unrestrained kids

Last edited by WineCountryUA; Mar 19, 18 at 7:29 pm Reason: merging consecutive posts by same member
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Old Mar 19, 18, 4:38 pm
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Interesting post. I had something like this happen a few years back. I was standing at the galley, thanking passengers after arrival, and a slight altercation broke out. Seems the parents had arranged a carrier in such a way, that the passenger in front could not recline. The parents were completely unaware this had happened, and apologized repeatedly, but the lady sitting in front of them felt that wasn't good enough, and made quite a scene, which lead to her pushing a flight attendant out of the way, and a prompt meet and greet from the Port Authority Police.

Moral of the story, it's possible the parents had no clue they were blocking the recline. In the future, mention it to the cabin crew, and see if they can assist. Sometimes these things can be resolved easily.
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Old Mar 19, 18, 4:49 pm
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Originally Posted by BeatCal View Post


the FAA encourages the usage of car seats. That report is by a group against it and they use flawed data. The national trauma data shows essentially no deaths (in normal wrecks) of infants appropriately car seated in middle of back seat.

the physics show that it is impossible to hold a baby I’d the plane hits an air pocket. Not deaths, but broken bones and concussions. Also the incidence of scald burns is greatly higher in unrestrained kids
can we send the topic of car seat use back to to travel with children forum - this was beaten to death there while the same claims without any factual support were made again and again by the very same posters..
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Old Mar 19, 18, 5:36 pm
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Personally I'd prefer no seats recline! I'm a person that rarely reclines (I can slouch and sleep) so it really pisses me off when people recline during food service, or on aircrafts where the space is already quite strained.

That being said, you're not entitled to recline. You did get a stroke of bad luck being in front of the baby seat (I've actually never seen anyone use one on a plane, didn't know that was a thing) so if the plane was full and you couldn't move to another seat, sorry, here's some of your miles back. Problem solved. If the flight had open seats that you refused to use, then this is on you.

Not only do some airlines not have recline, AFAIK all airlines have some seats that don't recline at all due to the emergency exit rows. Those pax pay the same as you do, in fact sometimes more to get a little bit of extra leg room, but with no recline.

Ultimately you got some miles, no one harmed you, no one used those clips or whatever to stop your recline, just bad luck, move on.
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Old Mar 19, 18, 5:48 pm
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Question. If the baby seat constrains recline of the seat in front, is there adequate emergency egress for people sitting in that row? Are they limiting use of this way of placing the seat to window seats only?
Honest question. I really haven't had one in my row and never noticed.
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Old Mar 19, 18, 5:56 pm
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Originally Posted by rickg523 View Post
Question. If the baby seat constrains recline of the seat in front, is there adequate emergency egress for people sitting in that row? Are they limiting use of this way of placing the seat to window seats only?
Honest question. I really haven't had one in my row and never noticed.
Needs to be in a window seat or the middle seat of the middle section.

People should be happy when there's a baby in a carseat instead of a lap child. Better odds the baby will sleep, less chance of the baby becoming a projectile. Something that parents should be commended for paying for a seat for an infant in a carseat.
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Old Mar 19, 18, 6:05 pm
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Originally Posted by ctownflyer View Post
Needs to be in a window seat or the middle seat of the middle section.

People should be happy when there's a baby in a carseat instead of a lap child. Better odds the baby will sleep, less chance of the baby becoming a projectile. Something that parents should be commended for paying for a seat for an infant in a carseat.
Thanks. Wasn't aware of the rules. They make sense. I absolutely agree about their calming advantage for the young flyer.
And now FT can give the collective "if you didn't want your recline limited, you shouldn't have booked that seat...you know the rules"
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Old Mar 19, 18, 6:11 pm
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I wonder if there has been studies on the added risk of injury to the person on the front when the not so perfectly installed baby seat crashes in to the back of their seat. I doubt these seats are certified where they physically push the seat on front them forward. Also these seats certainly will slow down the parents ability to remove their baby in an emergency evacuation. So while there is certainly a clear benefit in turbulence I actually don't think there is much help in an actual crash situation because the expedited exit of an air frame is so crucial in survival of crash landing. Still I did end up using a seat for out baby, mostly because she sleeps better in it.
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