doctor3

Definitely sympathize you with your situation. Two years ago as a 1K, I rushed to the gate with 10 minutes to spare and still seeing people on-line boarding so I simply waited on line with rest the folks to only find out when I was about to scan my boarding pass to be told that they had already gave up my seat. I wasn't too happy about it since the gate was still open and they still had available seat, but refused to process me. At the end, I had to settle for another flight via AA. Since then, I gave up 1K and moved to AA.

I did complained to the 1K desk and they gave me a $100 travel voucher for the inconvenience. Not that it made any difference, but I have been pretty happy with AA's ExPlat status.

l8r

-doc

HGHUA

Once, rushing from a Intl flight in SFO to a domestic connection. Wasn't sure I was gonna make it. Hightailed it to the gate with carry on only. Agent was literally about to hand the BP to a standby passenger when I ran up. Showed here my BP and she said "Who are you? Oh we just offloaded you", but then moved to re-offload the standby and put me back on. Standby wasn't happy but I was too tired from the run to talk.

I was glad I had a physical BP, a digital one may have been erased by the time I made it to the gate.

TA

Well but in terms of lessons learned that others can apply, do you think AA wouldn't have done anything similar under similar circumstances?

Kevin AA

What is the point of publishing a "departure time" if the real departure time is always sooner than that?

I understand the advantage of leaving 10 minutes early. But that only makes sense if everyone with a reservation for that flight has boarded the flight. If you have connecting passengers, the smart thing to do would be to wait up until departure time to actually depart. If you're going to cut off boarding at 10 minutes prior, then back up the published departure times by 10 minutes and stop lying to us.

Sometimes Southwest will wait past departure time for connecting passengers.

I once had a UA flight via DEN to MTJ, and the inbound flight was late. I made it to the gate 5 minutes before departure to see the plane already pushing back.

Then to add insult to injury, I booked a rental car out of DEN because I was not going to wait the next day just to fly to MTJ, and UA wouldn't change my ticket to reflect a departure from DEN. They were willing to forgive me for not flying to MTJ but I was expected to start my return trip from there (would would have added a lot to the rental car cost). UA and customer service are opposite each other.

Kacee

So long as the published cut-off is respected, it doesn't matter if the flight departs early.

For a domestic UA flight, this means if you're not at the gate at T-15, the GAs can offload you. This is just one of the basic rules of air travel. Sometimes it works in your favor (you get the CPU because a connecting pax missed), sometimes it cuts the other way and you have to take a later flight. There's not much point arguing or getting upset about it.

Repooc17

^

Very similar story as mine, except I had to do all of the work for UA (e.g. calling UA to inform my UX connecting flight had "parked" on the tarmac for more than 30 minutes, literally minutes away but couldn't get to a gate at T-8 because of a "disabled" aircraft). I would have had overnight in LA since the last ps flight had a full load; I had re-booked on the second to last red-eye after my SEA-EWR redeye (eventually) rescheduled for the follow morning. All in all, it had worked out well; UA had held the door longer than it should have, and my streak continues.

TA

So you want the flight to instantly depart from the gate as soon as the door is closed? Do you think that's possible?

jsloan

Because the definition of the word "departure" is not "closing the boarding door." It's "the plane leaving the gate with its paperwork finalized."

It's not like UA hides this information. On a UA boarding pass, you see "Boarding begins" (in a large enough font that many inexperienced travelers confuse the boarding time with the departure time: "Please let me by; my flight is leaving in five minutes!"), "Boarding ends", and "Flight departs." During the check-in process, it will tell you that you must be at the gate 15 minutes prior to departure or you risk losing your seat.

I feel bad for the OP, but I agree with the various posters who've said, basically, we have no idea what the impact of waiting on that fight would have been. At an airport like LAX, during peak times, if you lose your takeoff slot, it's not necessarily the case that you can just take the next slot. You may well end up at the back of a very long line.

Now, UA's decision to switch to reporting on D:0 rather than A:0 or A:14 doesn't help matters here, because it definitely changes the goalposts; even if Operations could see that they could get another takeoff slot and still achieve an on-time arrival, they may be less inclined to wait when they're being judged on D:0 than they would if they were being judged by A:0. But, ultimately, OP took a risky connection and it didn't work out.

Aussienarelle

I booked a flight that United sold me with the 45 minute connection in LAX. A 45 minute domestic connection at LAX (all airside) should not be considered a risky connection. IMO

However, lesson learned today (and from previous international flights) for my Paris flight in May I am allowing 24 hours to make the train connection I need - although based on some of my cancelled and rebooked international flights I need to allow 28+ hours

jsloan

A 45-minute connection in LAX is definitely risky, as you yourself can now attest. Keep in mind, with the T-15 requirement, that's 30 minutes from the scheduled arrival time to deplane and make your way through the terminal. If everything goes well, it's a cakewalk. If your inbound flight has an "on time" arrival at 14 minutes past the scheduled arrival time -- counts as on-time for DOT stats -- that gives you 16 minutes for the jetway to be moved into position, any passengers ahead of you to de-plane, and for you possibly to change terminals. And that's for a flight that was (nominally) on time.

Now, I'm not saying that I wouldn't book a 45-minute connection. I've done so before, and I'll do so again, especially if I'm connecting to a flight that has frequent service (e.g., IAH-AUS or LAX-SAN). But I am saying that it's risky.

BF263533

Late departure reporting only penalizes passengers. Airlines should be required to only report missed connections and late arrivals. In 2016 there were about 5 of us at the gate about 5 minutes before departure after a long mechanical delay on an old 737-800. Once, after coming in from HKG at the gate 8 minutes before departure, etc, etc

StuckinITH

I know but when I made sure that I had a 2 hours and a half connecting time and the airline delivered me late it's more aggravating. And I was in planes where they waited for passengers arriving 30 minutes after departure time and they specified that that was the cause of our delay and we saw the passengers arriving.......

At least the time this caused me to miss my flight to PVG and I was delayed for 24 hours, UA gave me a room at the ORD Hilton and gave me vouchers for lunch, dinner and breakfast. I remember that we had landed late but with plenty of time to make our flight but we had to wait 20 minutes for a gate.

chermorg

As someone else said, the departure and arrival times are just that - they are the time of departure from the airport and arrival at the airport. Granted, airlines pad their schedule, but a flight is still considered "on time" so long as it leaves the gate area at or before (or within 14 minutes after) scheduled time, and touches down on the runway at the destination by the arrival time. It is not an instantaneous departure from the airfield, especially at a large airport such as LAX that depending on patterns and the lineup by ATC it may involve a lengthy taxi of well over 10 minutes just to get to the runway - not to mention time spent in line if there is a line to depart. This is why the airline starts the process of final checklists and paperwork at T-10 minutes - to ensure an on time departure it requires them to do so. It is as if you were going to take the subway to work one day - your subway train may depart at 6:00 AM, but you also must factor in time it takes you to drive/walk to the station and wait for the train - meaning you must actually leave at 5:45 AM or so. It is not an instantaneous departure when T-0 comes around, there is a lot of work that goes into ensuring the plane is ready to fly.

kb9522

Okay, so you didn't show up in time. Why are you complaining about UA?

LarryJ

That's not correct.

There are several metrics that are reported to the DOT including D:00, A:00, and A:14. A flight is considered on-time only if it arrives at the arrival gate within 14 minutes of the scheduled arrival time (A:14). Touching down or taking off have no bearing on the on-time reports.

D:00 means that the airplane began it's pushback no later than the scheduled departure time. In order to meet D:00, the door has to be closed, jetbridge moved, F/A arm & crosscheck complete and ensure that all passengers are seated, belted, and carry-on bags stowed. At that point they tell us that the cabin is prepared and close the cockpit door. Once that is done, and the ramp crew is ready, we call the ramp tower for pushback clearance. Often, we must wait a few minutes for traffic to clear before we are given our pushback clearance. Only then can the pushback begin and our OUT time be established. To depart on-time, D:00, the passenger door has to close several minutes before the scheduled departure time. That is why the boarding times and cutoffs are set as they are.

D:00 is only important internally as D:00 is the first building block for achieving the ultimate goal of A:00. The "on-time" stats from the DOT, and in the computer reservation systems, are not based on D:00, they are based on A:14.

United is expanding the technology to consider more factors than just D:00 when deciding whether or not to hold a flight for connecting passengers. The new IT is combining information on flight plan time, down-line connections, reroute options, crew time limitations, other flights holding for the gate, etc. and recommend when, and for how long, to hold flights. I don't deal with this directly so don't know the details of how it is implemented but it should lead to smarter go/hold decisions going forward.

To the OP, I'm sorry that you missed your connection. Operating flights on time, including the delayed inbound flight which ultimately caused your delay and misconnect, is a priority for all of us. Getting from your inbound flight to the departure gate so quickly is impressive. Most passengers would not have been able to make it that quickly which likely influenced the gate agent's decision to close the flight when he/she did. They have a screen in Aero which displays all the relevant information on inbound connecting passengers along with the arrival gate and flight status information. This gives them a pretty good idea of who can make the connection and who will not.