boat9781

We have a home in the Boston area and travel a lot to London. UA W fares to use a GPU are above the $1K mark and require round-trip travel. We were checking flights online and saw Norwegian was offering Premium Economy one way at $450 ish. We booked that as we’re unsure about return trip plans. How is UA geared up to compete with this or is the company simply hoping Norwegian can’t be making money at these levels and will soon disappear? The legacy EU carriers said that about Ryan Air and O’Leary got the last laugh.

porciuscato

They'll "compete" the same way they "compete" against Etihad and Emirates: they'll whine and moan about "unfair competition" and then they'll get their paid lackeys in Congress and the DOT to write laws and regulations to hobble the competition.

Trump takes heat from airline pilots over approval of Norwegian UK flights

TA

This is an old, often answered question, but we can discuss again here.

One part of the answer is that UA has to understand who its competition really is, and who it isn't. Few things get an airline in trouble faster than thinking it needs to cut prices (and quality) in response to some low cost carrier coming into one of its airports. Note that I say airports, and not markets. United's market -- that is, the routes + passengers -- are not the same as Norweigian's.

Whether UA should get a better handle on its costs is a separate, legitimate question.

mahasamatman

UA doesn't fly from Boston to London, so they probably don't care what's offered on that route. United doesn't need to compete with every airline on every route, and would be foolish to try.

boat9781

mahasamatman

I don't think United cares about a small airline catering to a completely different clientelle.

chermorg

Norwegian is not the type of airline United's core consumer will fly. Norwegian is an "ultra low cost" airline - such as are Spirit and Frontier in the USA. You don't get the amenities or service that come standard on United (or another "legacy" airline) - for example, you have to pay extra for luggage, seat selection, meals, and more. Further, these flights are generally only offered once (or a few times) weekly - and low cost carriers are notorious for not wanting to rebook you on another airline. Thus, in the event of a delay or cancellation, not only will they do everything possible to avoid paying your hotel and expenses for the delay, but it'll be an even longer delay than if you were on a legacy carrier who would, for many people, at least attempt to find alternate transportation. Ultra low cost carriers such as Norwegian take "the ticket cost is for your butt in a seat from point A to be... at some point in time that's at our discretion" to mean that - you get what you pay for.

United's core client is business travelers and leisure travelers who care more about things that may never happen to them - delays, cancellations, and service. Most businesses will not include ultra low cost airlines in their business travel plans/funds due to the fact that the additional cost for the add-ons as well as the potential time and money wasted in the event of IRROPS or something else going wrong aren't worth it. There's a reason United doesn't go out of business on many routes that are also served by Spirit and Frontier - they're different clientele that are being catered to in each market. The clientele who prefer stability and service, even for a higher price, will either stick with United, or move back quickly after they realize what Norwegian offers (i.e. almost nothing) in the ticket price.

The TLDR of this is that Norwegian is not competing with United. All Norwegian is doing is picking up people who would never have flown to Europe (as the cost was prohibitive) and taking them to Europe. Yes, there may be some shift from United->Norwegian over time on newer routes, but that should be balanced by passengers who have bad experiences (or don't know what they're getting into) moving back from Norwegian to United.

On a side note, I for one know many people who are money-conscious and still will never fly Spirit, Frontier, or Norwegian because of the lack of service and fact that the add-on costs make the tickets much more expensive.

ermintrude

The OP is GS

I'm also considering Norwegian TATL for OW tickets only. Norwegian doing this is nothing new; they’ve pioneered OW TATL pricing. What’s interesting is that this is extending to the PE product. At those prices, you’re going to likely see 'book-away' from the legacy carriers.

BA is deploying a Gatwick fleet of 10-across 777s to compete with Norwegian. DL and AF/KLM are rolling out BE with no free checked bags to/from Europe on those fares. Their pricing however hasn’t yet become OW.

Hey I'm all for competition - I'd love to see Norwegian have a bigger presence in NYC.

Alpha Golf

United not so big in BOS. But from EWR N;orwegian has BCN, Paris (soon) and FCO and from JFK CPH, LGW, OSL, CDG, ARN, and (soon) AMS and MAD. And in addition to Norwegian, there are a flock of other Euro LCCs crossing the pond or planning to.
The big three and their unions tried really hard to get DOT to block Norwegian's permits and delayed it for years. I suspect UA will introduce BE int'l. And they'll make the product worse to cut costs.

Repooc17

Norwegian already flies the NYC (JFK) to London (LGW) route.

UAL

+1

Unless it is a last minutes thing and UA or Star Alliance ticket is 3-4x more expensive than UA I would not book Norwegian or other LLC for international flights. Giving up 7-10K EQM is significant along with other benefits from United. Also, LLC doesn't fly into Heathrow. Stansted, Luton, and even Gatwick is not very convenient to get into London and expensive too!

mduell

Cut and run, but they don't even have a flight in that market. A backward connection through the sEWeR isn't getting much traffic either.

chermorg

To be completely honest, the PQM/PQD and the award miles almost would make up for it when you factor in the better service and security to me. But it's a decision everyone'd want to make for themselves. Norwegian's flight times don't ever line up with my desired (required) dates anyway so /shrug

timfountain

It's really worthy of consideration for me, who by company policy can only fly economy (and PE is economy). NOR don't come up on Concur searches (yet), but if they do and their prices are keen, then yes, I would do it. The days of loyalty are rapidly waning for both sides, United has demonstrated how much it values loyal, supposedly HVF customers, and the answer is zip. Hilton has done a great job of pissing off loyal customers, you can buy Diamond for $450 per year (or less if you utilize the rebates/kickbacks that the card accrues). When I visit other sections of FT, I see similar comments at Delta, AA, BA etc. It's just the way things are going.

Kacee

All the US legacies are concerned. A large percentage of their passengers choose flights on price, not frequent flyer benefits.