United fares to Europe high?
#121
Join Date: Nov 2012
Programs: BA Bronze, United 1K, HH Gold, SPG Platinum, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 3,477
I was late for mid-May when I booked my ticket ORD-MUC-ORD in mid-March. I had the 55, 60 days to meet the AP requirements and staying two weeks there but decision to make the trip was too late for the 75 days. Only fare available was A at $8000. Ended up booking Economy at $806. If I survived a return from PVG in Economy + I should be OK to and from MUC. Now, I see Z fares but the price is still in the $7000-$8800 range.
#122
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: EWR, PHL
Programs: UA1k 3MM, AA Plt, peasant on everybody else, elite something or other at a bunch of hotels.
Posts: 4,637
I've done plenty of long-haul Y over the years. The older I get, the more I hate it.
#123
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: SF Bay Area
Programs: UA GS, AA EXP, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Platinum, Mlife NOIR
Posts: 320
I started looking in the middle of February as soon as I found out the dates I need to be places. I am shocked though that the few P fares I've seen were $6,000+ and Z fares were approaching $10K. At $10 grand, I'd expect fully refundable fares. The SFO-MXP looks interesting, but still somewhat out of the way since I need to be Zurich/Basel and Amsterdam.
I've done plenty of long-haul Y over the years. The older I get, the more I hate it.
I've done plenty of long-haul Y over the years. The older I get, the more I hate it.
Meanwhile, BA/AA are pricing out closer to $4-6k with plenty of inventory...
It sounds like my UA vs AA spend will be much closer to 50%/50% this year than the 80%/20% last year.
#124
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Austin, TX
Programs: UA 1K, Marriott Gold, SPG Gold
Posts: 139
Two trips in May, Milan and London. Was seeing $8K business fares for both, checking every week or two on UA site. Somehow stumbled across a $3900 RT fare to Milan and booked it. The better fare kind of appeared on the return flight screen. Not seeing it now, though. LHR, on the other hand, continues in the $8k+ range, at least in the time range I need.
#125
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: SNA
Programs: UA LT Plat, 2.5mm, Hilton LTD, SPG LT Gold, Marriott Gold, Hertz Whatever
Posts: 161
Same here. SFO flyer and have been trouble finding any P or Z fares to Europe (outside of BUD/ATH) even 60-75+ days out. And the few Z fares I have found are mostly on LH metal and are nearly as expensive as D fares (~$10 vs 12k). In fact, when I did find a P fare it was over $6,000, which is what I would have paid for a Z a year ago.
Meanwhile, BA/AA are pricing out closer to $4-6k with plenty of inventory...
It sounds like my UA vs AA spend will be much closer to 50%/50% this year than the 80%/20% last year.
Meanwhile, BA/AA are pricing out closer to $4-6k with plenty of inventory...
It sounds like my UA vs AA spend will be much closer to 50%/50% this year than the 80%/20% last year.
#126
Join Date: Oct 2009
Programs: UA 1K, Hilton ♦ , Hyatt Carbonado, Wyndham ♦, Marriott PE, "Stinking Bum" elsewhere.
Posts: 4,986
I got ORD-AMS/MUC-ORD for around $3,800- in mid July. In fact, I see tons of P-fares right now for Europe over the summer. Admittedly, SFO is more expensive, but why not fly-out of ORD if it'll save you thousands?
#128
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: SF Bay Area
Programs: UA GS, AA EXP, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Platinum, Mlife NOIR
Posts: 320
While the best I'm seeing in June is around $6900 with a Saturday night stay, that's better than the 9-12k I was seeing last month.
#129
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: SNA
Programs: UA LT Plat, 2.5mm, Hilton LTD, SPG LT Gold, Marriott Gold, Hertz Whatever
Posts: 161
Interesting. I'm now seeing P fares but only July onward. Pity since my London trips are in April, May, early June, and then not until the fall.
While the best I'm seeing in June is around $6900 with a Saturday night stay, that's better than the 9-12k I was seeing last month.
While the best I'm seeing in June is around $6900 with a Saturday night stay, that's better than the 9-12k I was seeing last month.
#130
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: SNA
Programs: UA LT Plat, 2.5mm, Hilton LTD, SPG LT Gold, Marriott Gold, Hertz Whatever
Posts: 161
I'm flying out of SNA, intentionally connecting through SFO so that I get as much time in business as possible. More time to enjoy and more time to sleep on the 777-300ER.
#131
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 23,015
Interesting. I'm now seeing P fares but only July onward. Pity since my London trips are in April, May, early June, and then not until the fall.
While the best I'm seeing in June is around $6900 with a Saturday night stay, that's better than the 9-12k I was seeing last month.
While the best I'm seeing in June is around $6900 with a Saturday night stay, that's better than the 9-12k I was seeing last month.
FROM THE UNITED STATES -
PERMITTED 20JUN THROUGH 29AUG OR 18NOV THROUGH 25NOV OR
12DEC THROUGH 02JAN FOR EACH TRANSATLANTIC SECTOR.
TO THE UNITED STATES -
PERMITTED 20JUN THROUGH 11SEP OR 21NOV THROUGH 29NOV OR
19DEC THROUGH 08JAN FOR EACH TRANSATLANTIC SECTOR.
Also, they frequently have day of week travel requirements like the following or 7 day min stay requirements, etc.
FROM THE UNITED STATES -
PERMITTED TUE THROUGH FRI ON EACH TRANSATLANTIC SECTOR.
TO THE UNITED STATES -
PERMITTED SUN THROUGH THU ON EACH TRANSATLANTIC SECTOR.
#132
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: ORD
Programs: UA GS, Marriott Lifetime Plat
Posts: 53
TATL Prices - just me or are they crazy high these days?
Booking 4-6 day trips (either sunday night or monday night), legs like ORD-FRA, ORD-NCE, ORD-MXP, all looking $9200+ in business. Even booking 45 or 60 days out. Last summer, ORD-FRA was $6-7.5k. $5500 was common. Now I'm seeing $10k+. Is it just me, or have TATL fares gone up significantly?
-Wil
-Wil
#133
Moderator: United Airlines
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Plat 1.99MM, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott Plat/LT Gold, Hilton Silver, IHG Plat
Posts: 66,756
TATL for the summer months have been higher than usual all year and it is not just UA
There are a few sweet spots, but very few, in Premium Fare Deals
There are a few sweet spots, but very few, in Premium Fare Deals
#134
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Houston
Programs: UA Plat, Marriott Gold
Posts: 12,686
And the other alliances are happy to match the fares in my market.
With all the non-ULCC carriers tied up in JVs, I think they're flexing their ability to make some money without explicit cartel behavior, and to avoid competing with the ULCCs. Less volume at higher prices approach, at least in the nonstop/minimum-stop markets.
With all the non-ULCC carriers tied up in JVs, I think they're flexing their ability to make some money without explicit cartel behavior, and to avoid competing with the ULCCs. Less volume at higher prices approach, at least in the nonstop/minimum-stop markets.
#135
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: CLE
Programs: UA 1K MM, DL Plat
Posts: 982
The ULCCs have definitely led to some pathological pricing scenarios though, particularly with the expansion of WOW, Norwegian and Iceland Air (though not technically a ULCC). Things like UA offering $500 fares ORD-KEF, but $1100 fares CLE-KEF on the same dates. That's still not UA competing with the ULCCs, even from ORD, since WOW and others are charging $350.
And that's not even the connecting itineraries. It's gotten bad enough here in CLE that at least one of my clients is openly discussing paying for additional hotel night and travel comp days for employees going to Europe, because sending them on a ULCC and paying the expense for them to have one or two "recovery days" is still considerably less expensive than paying for a legacy carrier... And from CLE, they're both still one-stop itineraries! Just in KEF instead of EWR or IAD. So far, many employees are in favor of a couple "free" vacation days, and fares are low enough that several have discussed bringing spouses along.
Not sure where this will ultimately go, since Iceland service hasn't started from CLE yet. The experience may be so dismal that even with extra comp time and family vacations, nobody will be willing to do it more than once. But if the experience is decent, this could bode very poorly for the legacies' TATL margins down the road.
And that's not even the connecting itineraries. It's gotten bad enough here in CLE that at least one of my clients is openly discussing paying for additional hotel night and travel comp days for employees going to Europe, because sending them on a ULCC and paying the expense for them to have one or two "recovery days" is still considerably less expensive than paying for a legacy carrier... And from CLE, they're both still one-stop itineraries! Just in KEF instead of EWR or IAD. So far, many employees are in favor of a couple "free" vacation days, and fares are low enough that several have discussed bringing spouses along.
Not sure where this will ultimately go, since Iceland service hasn't started from CLE yet. The experience may be so dismal that even with extra comp time and family vacations, nobody will be willing to do it more than once. But if the experience is decent, this could bode very poorly for the legacies' TATL margins down the road.