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Pax accuses UA of giving her F seat to US Rep

Old Dec 29, 2017, 7:11 pm
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It is the desire of the FT UA Moderation Team to keep this thread open, as there is still much to be learned. While realizing this incident has some elements that have led to some very active discussion; such as the Congresswoman is local to a major UA hub and familiar to many UA flyers, FT has certain rules for discussion. This forum is focused on travel with UA and there are better places for other types of discussion.

After some discussion among the FT UA Moderators, we wish to clarify what is appropriate and what is not.
Discussion of the actual incident and how it might have happened
Discussion of how UA has handled the event
Discussion if the congresswoman or others forced this to happen
Discussion of UA granting unearned GS status

Not appropriate and better elsewhere
Overly political or racial comments about the congresswoman (or anyone else)
General comments about politicians, government officials unrelated to the actual incident
General ethics discussion concerning corporate/government officials accepting complimentary status

And all the standard FT rules apply including not commenting on other posters and not posting unnecessarily inflammatory, inciting or provocative comments.

Generally, if you are not discussing the incident, good chance you may be Off Topic.

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Pax accuses UA of giving her F seat to US Rep

Old Dec 25, 2017, 1:34 pm
  #61  
 
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Originally Posted by denver19
If this is true, it certainly puts a different spin on the story. But when you "cancel your reservation", then show up for the flight, I would expect UAL to say "Your not on this flight". Not: "Mea culpa, but lets put you in E+ and give you $500." When I change reservations, I pay, they don't pay me. I don't think this "cancel / auto-upgrade" story is without some problems.

Lets not forget she was half way home. If you cancel your flight, you need to rebook another flight.

per the linked article, pax denies that she cancelled her flight. I'm inclined toward believing her since a knowing cancellation doesn't fit well with her or UAL's subsequent behavior, and I would think an accidental cancellation would generate some sort of notification via email or sms, at least.
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Old Dec 25, 2017, 1:37 pm
  #62  
 
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Originally Posted by lobo411
Who cares what the commenters think? What has that got to do with the facts?

If a million people think that the sun revolves around the earth, does that make it true?
Yea!!! We don't need no stinkin' facts, nor do we need UA to come clean and clarify "Exactly-100%" what occurred.
The ONLY time the real facts come out is when they are backed against the wall, and public relations (i.e. $$$) gets out of hand, which is happening right now in nearly every news agency, around the world.

How bout this scenario --- "We at UAL have investigated this unfortunate incident thoroughly, and it appears that Ms. Simon inadvertently cancelled her res during a MX delay, and due to the traumatic effect on Ms. Simon we have reached an amicable agreement with her. We are taking steps to correct the ability to mistakenly self-cancel one's reservation, by accident. We have learned by this incident and our apologies for any embarrassments go out to Ms. Simon as well as Congresswoman Lee."

This ain't gonna happen, cause they are NEVER wrong, except when matters get way out of hand --- (DR. DAO incident - 4/11/2017) "In his latest statement Tuesday, Munoz expressed his sympathies and apologized, saying that a "thorough review" of the situation and their policies will take place, the results of which will be shared by Apr. 30. "The truly horrific event that occurred on this flight has elicited many responses from all of us: outrage, anger, disappointment. I share all of those sentiments, and one above all: my deepest apologies for what happened. Like you, I continue to be disturbed by what happened on this flight and I deeply apologize to the customer forcibly removed and to all the customers aboard. No one should ever be mistreated this way," Munoz said in a statement. "I want you to know that we take full responsibility and we will work to make it right," he added.
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Old Dec 25, 2017, 2:07 pm
  #63  
 
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Originally Posted by Two Bee
Yea!!! We don't need no stinkin' facts, nor do we need UA to come clean and clarify "Exactly-100%" what occurred.
The ONLY time the real facts come out is when they are backed against the wall, and public relations (i.e. $$$) gets out of hand, which is happening right now in nearly every news agency, around the world.

How bout this scenario --- "We at UAL have investigated this unfortunate incident thoroughly, and it appears that Ms. Simon inadvertently cancelled her res during a MX delay, and due to the traumatic effect on Ms. Simon we have reached an amicable agreement with her. We are taking steps to correct the ability to mistakenly self-cancel one's reservation, by accident. We have learned by this incident and our apologies for any embarrassments go out to Ms. Simon as well as Congresswoman Lee."
Agreed. This is the most likely scenario: she accidentally canceled her reservation, partly because the app is poorly designed. This left UA in a situation with no good options.

In her facebook post, she mentions that she was seated next to another Texas congressman when she got to her assigned E+ seat. This congressman was the one who put the idea that Jackson-Lee did it to her intentionally into her head. The odds are that this Congressman was a Republican (Texas has 21 Republican congressmen and 9 Democratic congressmen).

Her facebook is wide open, btw...Anyone can look at every post she has ever made. Doesn't sound like she's terribly tech-savvy to me.

Last edited by WineCountryUA; Dec 25, 2017 at 2:26 pm Reason: OMNI content removed
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Old Dec 25, 2017, 2:18 pm
  #64  
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Originally Posted by denver19
But when you "cancel your reservation", then show up for the flight, I would expect UAL to say "Your not on this flight". [...] When I change reservations, I pay, they don't pay me.
That's not true. She basically ended up flying SBY. Whenever I ask GA's "Can I get on this flight?" the answer is invariably "Sure" (unless oversold, of course). If a GA tried to charge me for SBY I'd laugh in their face!

Originally Posted by denver19
Not: "Mea culpa, but lets put you in E+ and give you $500."
The comp part is fishy. As I said above, UA wanted to shut her up (they paid double the published benefit) but it's unclear why (did they screw up or did she throw a fit?).
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Old Dec 25, 2017, 2:21 pm
  #65  
 
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Originally Posted by angra
per the linked article, pax denies that she cancelled her flight. I'm inclined toward believing her since a knowing cancellation doesn't fit well with her or UAL's subsequent behavior, and I would think an accidental cancellation would generate some sort of notification via email or sms, at least.
I think she accidentally and unknowingly canceled her own flight due to a poorly designed app. She probably did receive a cancellation email, but she probably had her hands full due to IRROPS. It's a lot easier to manage things calmly and rationally with the benefit of hindsight. It's a lot more difficult when you're in the pressure cooker right now.

I don't for one second believe that UA "deleted" her reservation, as she seems to believe. That kind of tinfoil hat thinking is emotionally satisfying when we feel wronged, but of course it's entirely illogical.
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Old Dec 25, 2017, 2:24 pm
  #66  
 
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Originally Posted by sexykitten7
The comp part is fishy. As I said above, UA wanted to shut her up (they paid double the published benefit) but it's unclear why (did they screw up or did she throw a fit?).
The latter. She threw a fit. I gather that she didn't get a voucher at the time. She got nothing until she complained about it on FB, and UA sent her a voucher hours/days after the event:

"I said I wanted my seat, that I had paid a lot of miles for that seat, and that it was United's responsibility to undo the seat assignment and return it to me, the person who had paid for it," she wrote.

The United agent offered Simon a $300 voucher or told her she could buy a seat on a flight with a different airline. "I said I wanted $500 and a free meal. He said, 'And I want a Mercedes Benz, but that's not going to happen,'" she said.

Simon said she was the last passenger on the plane and that a Texas congressman sat down next to her. He allegedly told Simon that Jackson Lee "regularly does this" and that this was the third time he had witnessed her bump a passenger. He allegedly added: "Jackson Lee gives us all a bad name; it's shameful."
United Airlines accused of 'erasing' teacher from first class to favour US congresswoman
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Old Dec 25, 2017, 2:26 pm
  #67  
 
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Originally Posted by AndyInSaigon
Pity that poor passenger that was seated next to SJL. She's notoriously rude & demanding of the airlines. The Houston Press once had a story about how Continental sent her office a Delta schedule & suggested she use another airline. My congressional rep.
Poster person of DYKWIA! Everything is about discrimination.

"Since this was not any fault of mine, the way the individual continued to act appeared to be, upon reflection, because I was an African American woman, seemingly an easy target along with the African American flight attendant who was very, very nice," Jackson Lee said in the statement. "This saddens me, especially at this time of year given all of the things we have to work on to help people. But in the spirit of this season and out of the sincerity of my heart, if it is perceived that I had anything to do with this, I am kind enough to simply say sorry."
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Old Dec 25, 2017, 2:52 pm
  #68  
 
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I also wonder how the ticket was re-instated if it was supposedly cancelled. This had to have been done with a conversation between the passenger and United and with an explanation of the seat being gone.

As for the congresswoman saying she did not receive special treatment: I would think that flying paid economy domestic on a government fare most of the time would not qualify her for GS on revenue. Surely, she is getting GS due to her position which I imagine is common with members of Congress. Since United does not publish their criteria for getting GS status, the process is certainly designed for special entitlements. That may be something the press can look into as well as other stories of people being bumped out of first class for a VIP.
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Old Dec 25, 2017, 3:18 pm
  #69  
 
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Originally Posted by dmodemd
I also wonder how the ticket was re-instated if it was supposedly cancelled. This had to have been done with a conversation between the passenger and United and with an explanation of the seat being gone.
She almost certainly didn't cancel her 'ticket'. She canceled the reservation on that flight, most likely by moving to another flight.

The ticket (and more specifically, the coupon for that leg) would remain valid, and moving back to the original flight would be a trivial task for any UA agent.

As someone that has previously lost an upgrade by accidentally changing flights on the app, I can see exactly how this could occur. (In my case I realized immediately and they were able to move me back to the flight within minutes - but without my cleared upgrade).
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Old Dec 25, 2017, 3:32 pm
  #70  
 
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Originally Posted by lobo411
I think she accidentally and unknowingly canceled her own flight due to a poorly designed app. She probably did receive a cancellation email, but she probably had her hands full due to IRROPS. It's a lot easier to manage things calmly and rationally with the benefit of hindsight. It's a lot more difficult when you're in the pressure cooker right now.

I don't for one second believe that UA "deleted" her reservation, as she seems to believe. That kind of tinfoil hat thinking is emotionally satisfying when we feel wronged, but of course it's entirely illogical.
I disagree. I have flown 1M+ miles with UA and it only happened once, but it did happen...RT: DEN-ATL via connecting cities. On the return leg ATL-IAD-DEN I checked in via app in ATL, scanned my bp (heard the normal beep) and took my seat. Landed in IAD and noticed I was no longer on upgrade list. Checked with gate agent and they said my ticket was cancelled for not boarding the flight I just landed on!!! (But I was on it and they didn't notice when they did the final count that they had 1 more passenger than the manifest showed!) The IAD -DEN bp was no longer in my app and I had no record of ever being on that flight because, also for the only time ever, that morning I tossed my printed itinerary because I had never, ever needed it up to that point so surely I wouldn't need it that day either. What timing and coincidence. In the end they reinstated the cancelled ticket at full fare and put me on standby. I was lucky enough to get a bp and get home, but not in my exit row 21 window seat and learned that even though it only happened once over thousands of flights - it does happen, it was THEIR fault (I did not mess with any app changes nor was there MX or WX going on) and I will always keep written proof. I even go to kiosks and reprint bp's at every flight so I have proof. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice...isn't gonna happen.

So for those who say this displaced passenger must have mistakenly cancelled her flight, while it could have happened it is also very fair to call poppycock as systems do make mistakes that are not immediately easy to discern what or where it went wrong.
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Old Dec 25, 2017, 3:45 pm
  #71  
 
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I wonder if Simon got any portion of the 140,000 miles back, or just the $500 voucher.
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Old Dec 25, 2017, 3:50 pm
  #72  
 
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Originally Posted by fastair


simple. Inbound flight is late, it gives you new connection options. You accept them. Connecting flight gets delayed, youre able to get there, but youre now booked on later flight, not original. Happens frequently as airlines operations, being impacted by many possible unforeseen things, are not always accurate.
Sorry, but this is simply not credible. United forcibly removes people from F all the time. This time they got caught by someone who knew how to stir the pot with the media. And the circumstances suggest tha SJL is an entitled bully with a history of making demands of airlines staff.

I find it very hard to believe anything other than that this is yet another case of United mistreating passengers. It's what they do. It's arguably the only thing they are able to do consistently. Yes, their app is awful, but it's just not credible to blame the app or the passenger with these other details.
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Old Dec 25, 2017, 4:35 pm
  #73  
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Originally Posted by azzurro
I disagree. I have flown 1M+ miles with UA and it only happened once, but it did happen...RT: DEN-ATL via connecting cities. On the return leg ATL-IAD-DEN I checked in via app in ATL, scanned my bp (heard the normal beep) and took my seat. Landed in IAD and noticed I was no longer on upgrade list. Checked with gate agent and they said my ticket was cancelled for not boarding the flight I just landed on!!! (But I was on it and they didn't notice when they did the final count that they had 1 more passenger than the manifest showed!) The IAD -DEN bp was no longer in my app and I had no record of ever being on that flight because, also for the only time ever, that morning I tossed my printed itinerary because I had never, ever needed it up to that point so surely I wouldn't need it that day either. What timing and coincidence. In the end they reinstated the cancelled ticket at full fare and put me on standby. I was lucky enough to get a bp and get home, but not in my exit row 21 window seat and learned that even though it only happened once over thousands of flights - it does happen, it was THEIR fault (I did not mess with any app changes nor was there MX or WX going on) and I will always keep written proof. I even go to kiosks and reprint bp's at every flight so I have proof. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice...isn't gonna happen.

So for those who say this displaced passenger must have mistakenly cancelled her flight, while it could have happened it is also very fair to call poppycock as systems do make mistakes that are not immediately easy to discern what or where it went wrong.
Now that makes sense as a scenario. They saw it was cancelled for not boarding but obviously she did and were trying to cover up the system error. Meanwhile the computer gave her seat to the congresswoman.
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Old Dec 25, 2017, 4:46 pm
  #74  
 
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Originally Posted by embarcadero1


Sorry, but this is simply not credible. United forcibly removes people from F all the time.
I find it hard to believe people actually think that is the case.
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Old Dec 25, 2017, 5:11 pm
  #75  
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Originally Posted by EdofFX
I wonder if Simon got any portion of the 140,000 miles back, or just the $500 voucher.
According to her social media account, it appears that she's only received the $500 voucher and no miles back.
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