With no Global First, what will GS do with GPU?
Nov 22, 2017, 3:25 pm
#46
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Nov 22, 2017, 4:53 pm
#47
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IMHO, the decision to lose GF was a bad one...
- Many paid J customers chose UA because of the opportunities to UG to GF and UA ignored this halo effect
- The decision was made during an economic downturn when premium travel was tanking
- The decision was made when the company was being led by a moron.
- UA allowed the quality of GF to decline so no surprise it wasn't doing well.
- GF became overrun with non-revs that made it feel like a Greyhound bus
Nov 22, 2017, 4:55 pm
#48
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Which other airlines globally can you cite as evidence showing improved revenue/yield by increasing the F product on offer? Surely if this was a bad decision made by a moron then elsewhere will be many other companies that chose otherwise and are benefiting from that choice.
Added bonus for an airline that operates in similar markets, but I know that's not happening.
Added bonus for an airline that operates in similar markets, but I know that's not happening.
Nov 22, 2017, 7:28 pm
#49
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We often talk about the way things used to be.
But 20 years ago, an upgrade from Y to C was not as big a step as it is today. C was a much simpler cabin. Today, C is miles ahead of what it was.
I've always feared (as others have noted upthread), that Y to C would eventually be considered a double upgrade, and it would be replaced with Y to Y+.
But 20 years ago, an upgrade from Y to C was not as big a step as it is today. C was a much simpler cabin. Today, C is miles ahead of what it was.
I've always feared (as others have noted upthread), that Y to C would eventually be considered a double upgrade, and it would be replaced with Y to Y+.
Nov 22, 2017, 8:17 pm
#50
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many of my GS colleagues at work have started booking more LH and UGding with GPUs there. With $90k PQDs they have quite a bit they can use on LH without risking their status
Nov 23, 2017, 10:21 am
#51
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Agree wholeheartedly here. I think it's only a matter of time before the proliferation of LCCs in Asia drives away F from that market as well. The new future is economy, premium economy and business class
Nov 23, 2017, 10:53 am
#52
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Nov 23, 2017, 7:34 pm
#53
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Which other airlines globally can you cite as evidence showing improved revenue/yield by increasing the F product on offer? Surely if this was a bad decision made by a moron then elsewhere will be many other companies that chose otherwise and are benefiting from that choice.
Added bonus for an airline that operates in similar markets, but I know that's not happening.
Added bonus for an airline that operates in similar markets, but I know that's not happening.
And I would seriously challenge you to show that UA has improved it's revenue/yield in the international premium market. They are getting killed in this market.
Nov 23, 2017, 8:55 pm
#54
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The number of routes where "premium F" is deployed is decreasing. The number of airlines offering it is decreasing. The number of subfleets where it is offered is decreasing. Even the airlines that are keeping it are removing it from some planes and reducing the number of seats in the cabin.
Plenty of airlines have had the opportunity in recent years with fleet refreshes to add or expand F cabins on their fleet. None took that option.
Any increase in F capacity over the past decade (and I'm not 100% convinced such exists) comes at a pace WAY below the capacity increases otherwise occurring, even if LCCs are excluded. The offering is shrinking as full-flat biz with direct aisle access takes over in J.
Plenty of airlines have had the opportunity in recent years with fleet refreshes to add or expand F cabins on their fleet. None took that option.
Any increase in F capacity over the past decade (and I'm not 100% convinced such exists) comes at a pace WAY below the capacity increases otherwise occurring, even if LCCs are excluded. The offering is shrinking as full-flat biz with direct aisle access takes over in J.
Nov 23, 2017, 10:35 pm
#55
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My brother-in-law found that out the hard way recently. The new policy is for all senior executives except dep't heads (VP or better) to fly in Y, and you can't buy a full Y-fare. Their corporate travel dep't books fare classes below B, but which are still upgradeable. So, for 20+ years, he always previously flew paid biz into Japan and now has to play the upgrade lottery like the rest of us.
Last edited by zombietooth; Nov 24, 2017 at 1:49 am
Nov 23, 2017, 11:29 pm
#56
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The number of routes where "premium F" is deployed is decreasing. The number of airlines offering it is decreasing. The number of subfleets where it is offered is decreasing. Even the airlines that are keeping it are removing it from some planes and reducing the number of seats in the cabin.
Plenty of airlines have had the opportunity in recent years with fleet refreshes to add or expand F cabins on their fleet. None took that option.
Any increase in F capacity over the past decade (and I'm not 100% convinced such exists) comes at a pace WAY below the capacity increases otherwise occurring, even if LCCs are excluded. The offering is shrinking as full-flat biz with direct aisle access takes over in J.
Plenty of airlines have had the opportunity in recent years with fleet refreshes to add or expand F cabins on their fleet. None took that option.
Any increase in F capacity over the past decade (and I'm not 100% convinced such exists) comes at a pace WAY below the capacity increases otherwise occurring, even if LCCs are excluded. The offering is shrinking as full-flat biz with direct aisle access takes over in J.
While the percentage of F seats to total seats may be decreasing, other airlines are increasing their overall F capacity. UA is NOT. They are one of the outliers. And it's due to bad management, bad execution, and bad judgement.
Nov 24, 2017, 3:04 am
#57
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This decade:
LH? Nope.
AF? Nope.
SQ? Nope.
AA? Nope.
QR? Nope.
AI? Nope.
TK? Nope.
9W? Nope.
LA? Nope.
JJ? Nope.
LY? Nope.
BR? Nope.
QF? Nope (New A380s have but more 744s retired; new 787s don't have)
EK is taking planes with F still. Not all of them, but it is taking those deliveries. Of course, it is also planning on shrinking the existing cabins on a ton of its planes.
If we're using EK's fleet to define industry trends that's a choice, I suppose. But it is a bad one.
Last edited by sbm12; Nov 24, 2017 at 3:13 am
Nov 24, 2017, 9:07 pm
#59
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Truth!
My brother-in-law found that out the hard way recently. The new policy is for all senior executives except dep't heads (VP or better) to fly in Y, and you can't buy a full Y-fare. Their corporate travel dep't books fare classes below B, but which are still upgradeable. So, for 20+ years, he always previously flew paid biz into Japan and now has to play the upgrade lottery like the rest of us.
My brother-in-law found that out the hard way recently. The new policy is for all senior executives except dep't heads (VP or better) to fly in Y, and you can't buy a full Y-fare. Their corporate travel dep't books fare classes below B, but which are still upgradeable. So, for 20+ years, he always previously flew paid biz into Japan and now has to play the upgrade lottery like the rest of us.
Nov 24, 2017, 9:20 pm
#60
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And I'll again challenge that assertion.
This decade:
LH? Nope.
AF? Nope.
SQ? Nope.
AA? Nope.
QR? Nope.
AI? Nope.
TK? Nope.
9W? Nope.
LA? Nope.
JJ? Nope.
LY? Nope.
BR? Nope.
QF? Nope (New A380s have but more 744s retired; new 787s don't have)
EK is taking planes with F still. Not all of them, but it is taking those deliveries. Of course, it is also planning on shrinking the existing cabins on a ton of its planes.
If we're using EK's fleet to define industry trends that's a choice, I suppose. But it is a bad one.
This decade:
LH? Nope.
AF? Nope.
SQ? Nope.
AA? Nope.
QR? Nope.
AI? Nope.
TK? Nope.
9W? Nope.
LA? Nope.
JJ? Nope.
LY? Nope.
BR? Nope.
QF? Nope (New A380s have but more 744s retired; new 787s don't have)
EK is taking planes with F still. Not all of them, but it is taking those deliveries. Of course, it is also planning on shrinking the existing cabins on a ton of its planes.
If we're using EK's fleet to define industry trends that's a choice, I suppose. But it is a bad one.
In the three years through 2016, annual international F capacity has increased from roughly 77 to 98 million seats.
Of course if the airlines continue improve the J seats, your argument may eventually be right, but in that case it's simply a re-branding of what would have been considered F by instead calling it business class to meet US corporate travel policy requirements.
