COSPILOT

Agree, even a little Cessna can get a ferry permit to add bladder tanks to make it from the mainland to Hawaii without much issue. I came close to doing it with my 182 many years ago.

I shouldn't say without issue, as there are many things that go into a ferry flight such as this, but my point is it can be done.

prestonh

That's the rating but when fuselages start opening up mid flight after 30,000 cycles and FAA now requires inspections on the 737 classics after premature cracks on the lap joints then I'm not sure everyone knows everything about actual ratings on high cycle aircraft.

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2011/im....emergency.pdf

Kacee

Interestingly, the aircraft in question "had accumulated 39,781 total flight cycles and 48,740 total flight hours." In other words, lots of quick up and downs.

tj96821

The problems you note are minor compared to the advantages UA brings to the islands:

1. You vastly overestimate the value of HA “local-ness”. UA is as close to being a local airline as any other carrier operating in Hawaii. UA can rightfully claim to be as kama'aina as HA. UA has been flying to its “little corner of the world” for more than 50 years now and UA’s ground staff is as a local as HA’s ground staff. Many local folks are disgusted with what they perceive as HA price gouging by a monopolistic airline including its numerous ancillary charges. At least with UA local people will accumulate miles with their purchase that are far more useful and available for travel on UA extensive route networks and in conjunction with UA’s alliance partners than on HA. Good luck finding the same world-wide seat availability on HA or any of its partners with HA miles.

2. UA has Star Alliance and regional alliances that far surpass anything HA has or ever will.

3. UA’s schedule will never equal the frequency of HA but that is not so a big obstacle since UA won’t compete with HA on schedule. UA leaves HA in the dust with its far-flung network, better res system, and better mileage accrual and redemption program. Try comparing HA’s anemic international and mainland flights next to UA’s.

4. Tourism is down from Japan compared to the halcyon days of the last decades. But China tourism has made up for it and UA’s loads HNL-NRT remain strong. China is not a declining market nor is Korea. The Philippines is also available with the only competition being PAL after HA bailed on this market 2 years ago.

When you say “(t)he only real competitor HA can have is a well-funded regional jet/turboprop operation,” you sound a lot like HA management. No, HA will and should have competition. Not only does it make good economic sense for UA to challenge HA’s monopoly but it is also the right thing to do given the un-American nature of monopolies.

sbm12

But that's why people will fly UA to the mainland (and I'm pretty sure HA has more, not fewer, flights/routes to the mainland than UA does, with the A321neos launching even more routes starting early next year). No doubt *A and UA's international network are broader than HA's. But that's not really going to overcome frequency opportunities. Plus all of the above comments about the fleet issues that preclude UA in its current setup from making that work.
Indeed. There's a reason Narita is no longer a bustling hub for UA & DL. Direct flights are preferred whenever possible by most passengers. And UA has multiple hubs capable of serving multiple island destinations.

Karl-MDW

According to United's publication "The Age of Flight", United was contracted by the USA to serve Pacific destinations and Hawaii during WWII starting in 1942 . United's actual first commercial flight to Honolulu was launched by a DC-6 Mainliner on May 1, 1947 - not to mention Pan American's service (which United inherited) that began before the War.

As I said in an earlier post, I also agree with you that United earned its "local" status years ago with many local employees, family, friends, and local frequent flyers who are proud to share Pan Am/United loyalty to the Islands.

Still, I am not sure that United would be wise to launch a big inter Island service for a host of other reasons.

jhayes_1780

Count myself in the camp that I don't see this happening (at least direct by UA). But I have a question for those advocating UA begin this service:

At absolute BEST what could UA create in revenue (not profit) from this operation?

IAH-OIL-TRASH

You continually (and inadvertently) present the case against United expanding. HA bailed on Manila from HNL, so UA should get in???? Yes, that make a lot of sense - HA bailed because the money wasn't there, so UA should get in.

"Not only does it make good economic sense for UA to challenge HA’s monopoly" - prove it. Show us the numbers. If it makes economic sense, why haven't AA, DL, UA, WN, whoever set up shop in the last ten years? Explain to us why they all seem to be throwing a huge money-making opportunity away. Why have all the other airlines closed up if it's such a money-maker? Don't tell us UA can do it because UA can afford to lose more.

United would prefer to put it's long-haul plane where it can generate decent revenue from the front cabin. Transpac/Oceania routes to/from Hawaii are not them.

UA should get in "because it's the right thing to do". Seriously? It's United's job to make sure monopolies don't occur? You lost all credibility there.

"Mr. Munoz, we have to enter the Hawaii inter-island market immediately because HA is operating what we think is an un-American monopoly".

notquiteaff

Here's my armchair airline CEO plan:

United should have sent their 747 fleet to the islands instead of the desert. Offer three times a day "Queen of the Skies" service between the major airports. Cake at the gate, inflight mai-tais for everyone, and water cannon salutes after every flight.

Everyone would choose this over those "tired old" HA 717s. And the "cargo in the belly" would ensure profitability.

HNLbasedFlyer

It is in Hawaiian's best interest to fill the seats - you "gouge" and people will simply not buy the tickets - it becomes a point where it just isn't worth it.

The ferry service ending has nothing to do with HA.

A spinoff airline by a major carrier with the right aircraft (not 737 and not prop) "might" make it work.....

IAH-OIL-TRASH

I don't think a subsidiary of a major airline would be palatable to the others. An AK sub might barely be palatable.

STS-134

Yep. I bought a HNL-OGG inter-island flight in July for about $100, about 3-5 days before departure. I thought it was reasonable. If it was not, then I would have flown HNL-OGG via SFO or LAX on UA. And I'm always looking for more PQM so I'd do something like that before most other people would.

Kacee

Agreed. I've taken discretionary short trips to Kauai expressly because the fares were so reasonable.

With HA's frequency, they pretty much have to price the seats reasonably. It's basic microeconomics.

globaltrvlr

Lots of entertainment value in this thread - two teams "The Realists" vs. the "Pipe Dreamers" going at it! While the thread in all likelihood will end up being a draw (I mean, seriously, who changes their mind when being presented with facts? ), reality usually has a nasty way of getting the last word...

Halo117

i know what u mean...i gave casm and rasm facts and not once was that countered with facts...just dismissed with one respectful example with regards to stage lengths costs but just an example...but who needs facts