United to buy more NEW 763/4? [Rumor]

Old Oct 19, 17, 6:09 pm
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United to buy more NEW 763/4? [Rumor]

I think this is crazy, but then nearly everything about United is crazy these days:

https://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/...hoo&yptr=yahoo

"Boeing is urgently weighing plans to double 767 production in Everett, the Puget Sound Business Journal has learned.

The Chicago-based jetmaker (NYSE: BA) is asking its employees and suppliers whether they can deliver on the rate increase to win a big aircraft order, according to a Boeing document and three industry sources who requested anonymity to protect business relationships.

Boeing has not made a passenger version of its 767 for years. The production increase would offer a steady stream of new work to suppliers in the Puget Sound region.

Boeing spokesman Paul Bergman declined to comment.

The moves come amid rumors Boeing has secured or is close to securing a huge order for 767s from a major airline, possibly United Continental (NYSE: UAL). Between 50 and 100 jets are potentially involved, sources said.

United Continental spokeswoman Andrea Hiller had no immediate comment Thursday."

Count my baffled why someone would want last gen aircraft which are so inefficient compared to more modern planes.
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Old Oct 19, 17, 6:28 pm
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If the article suggested Delta was looking at 767-300 the conclusion would almost certainly be different...
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Old Oct 19, 17, 6:41 pm
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If this came to pass, it would be the end of United's A350 acquisition, I expect.
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Old Oct 19, 17, 6:49 pm
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fuel is and will continue to be cheap, offers a vast amount of cargo payload configuration and capacity for its size, it's really not a bad airplane to fly on, the 67 is a reliable workhorse, newer isn't always better, range is very impressive, cost is probably cheap, isn't 67 to 87 and vice versa pilot training something short like 2 weeks or something? who cares if it's last gen if it has a 30-40 year lifespan. i don't think it's that crazy.
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Old Oct 19, 17, 6:54 pm
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I'd love to see new 767s flying to Hawaii in the next few years!
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Old Oct 19, 17, 7:15 pm
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Is it April 1st already?
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Old Oct 19, 17, 7:17 pm
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The only way this makes any sense to me is if Boeing re-engines the 767. The 767-400ER with a smaller-fan, derated GEnx engine (similar to the 748) with other incremental improvements could be a winner. It wouldn't be available any time soon, though. Even a re-engined 763ER would be competitive.

Originally Posted by transportprof View Post
If this came to pass, it would be the end of United's A350 acquisition, I expect.
Two completely different markets; I don't think one has anything to do with the other.
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Last edited by EWR764; Oct 19, 17 at 7:23 pm
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Old Oct 19, 17, 7:18 pm
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Originally Posted by transportprof View Post
If this came to pass, it would be the end of United's A350 acquisition, I expect.
Why? The 767 can't fly the same ULH routes that the A350 can.

That said, the only reason it would make sense for UA to do something like this is if it became clear that the 'paper airplane' 797 is not going to be developed / take much longer than expected. Or maybe they are deciding to implement widebody p.s. on a lot more TCON routes (one can dream, right?!).

The absolute number sounds too big to be UA, though. It also sounds way too ambitious given what they have been doing ever since Kirby showed up.
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Old Oct 19, 17, 7:34 pm
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Actually this could be the reason the 763 2 class and 764s have gone silent on polaris. Replace with new birds... run them on ps and LH domestic.....but knowing UA add 2-4-2 Y.
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Old Oct 19, 17, 7:49 pm
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Apparently, the planes would replace the oldest 763s and be in the fleet until UA receives enough 797s in the late 2020s. UA would then sell the planes to cargo airlines, who are buying every 767 available right now. Honestly, a 767 with slightly better wings/engine would be great in today's fuel environment.
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Old Oct 19, 17, 7:57 pm
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Originally Posted by DA201 View Post
Apparently, the planes would replace the oldest 763s and be in the fleet until UA receives enough 797s in the late 2020s. UA would then sell the planes to cargo airlines, who are buying every 767 available right now. Honestly, a 767 with slightly better wings/engine would be great in today's fuel environment.
A plausible explanation and plan given that Amazon has its own airline with 76s nowadays.

Can we hope this starts the cascading effect of up-gauging throughout the system? Or, viewed from the other end of things (capacity restraint), replaces the current 3-4-3 772HDs with 2-3-2 764s?
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Old Oct 19, 17, 9:02 pm
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Originally Posted by DA201 View Post
Apparently, the planes would replace the oldest 763s and be in the fleet until UA receives enough 797s in the late 2020s. UA would then sell the planes to cargo airlines, who are buying every 767 available right now. Honestly, a 767 with slightly better wings/engine would be great in today's fuel environment.
The cargo conversion effectively eliminates residual value risk and makes this idea a lot more interesting. I doubt there would be many changes to the 767: that adds billions of dollars of cost and years of engineering. Getting airplanes fast and cheap would be a requirement.

One benefit of the 767 I just thought about is airport infrastructure as it can fit in more gates than newer, larger aircraft.
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Old Oct 19, 17, 9:11 pm
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Originally Posted by fly18725 View Post
The cargo conversion effectively eliminates residual value risk and makes this idea a lot more interesting. I doubt there would be many changes to the 767: that adds billions of dollars of cost and years of engineering. Getting airplanes fast and cheap would be a requirement.

One benefit of the 767 I just thought about is airport infrastructure as it can fit in more gates than newer, larger aircraft.
Thereís lots to love if this really does come true. The 767 is a workhorse of a plane. Itís reliable, comfortable from a pax-ex perspective, delivers decent efficiency, excellent cargo capacity, is well known, plenty of trained crew ready to fly, fits well at airports, spare parts are not an issue. Really could be a home friggin run.

How nice would it be to see these become the backbone of the domestic network? Fully Polarisíd Up? A guy can dream......
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Old Oct 19, 17, 9:14 pm
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Originally Posted by fly18725 View Post
The cargo conversion effectively eliminates residual value risk and makes this idea a lot more interesting.
Basic question - why are planes that are considered inefficient for passenger purposes desirable to cargo airlines/usage?
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Old Oct 19, 17, 9:30 pm
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Originally Posted by spin88 View Post

Count my baffled why someone would want last gen aircraft which are so inefficient compared to more modern planes.
Delta ordered late run A330s instead of 'next gen', 'efficient' 787s when it had the chance. Just to set the facts straight.

http://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press...air-lines.html

Or brought used MD90s on the lot.

From a pax ex perspective you can't beat a 767 for economy, and with Polaris it's a great layout that beats everyone to Europe and LATAM.

Count me glad if 767s live on a lot longer, in the same way I'm glad Delta ordered MD90s.

That said, Amazon Prime Air seems the more likely order.
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