Exleftseat

Let me try to bring this back to the original theme. My personal opinion is that SW does have a chance of at least being one of the big players in the Hawaiian market. It's an airline that as far as I can see shows the least hostility of its passenger to the company. They are also at this point besides another Hawaiian competitor, namely AS, the only company that treats their passengers right. No shenanigans, nothing about adding extra row of seats, taking away space etc. And they have a loyal following. Now that all airlines really don't differentiate as in the old days, with very, very few widebodies and no extra gimmicks, it is a free for all. Personally I still can't get over the fact that there are mostly single aisles to Hawaii, but that's how it is nowadays. So everybody flies more or less the same aircraft, the legacies have poor earnings on their FF programs and few benefits. I will wait and see, it will be interesting.

LIH Prem

From an employee memo as reported by Zach Honig at TPG, "Companion Pass ... will carry over to Hawaii Service".

https://thepointsguy.com/2017/10/sou...employee-memo/

-David

kettle1

Allegiant could not make it work. They tried several routes from the west coast to HNL. It will work for WN. Kettles will book WN. The one carrier that should be worried is HA. They are stuck. UA used to be the carrier to take to Hawaii. This could affect AS as well. WN could go full force in Hawaii. They could add inter-island flts and build a base in HNL. HA must be shaking in their flip-flops.

IAH-OIL-TRASH

Hawaiian has outlasted Aloha and go! jet competitors. Mokulele is down to a niche market and Island uses Q400s to LIH, OGG and KOA.

It would be pretty dumb to run an inter-island operation w/o interlining to/from mainland or with Asian/SE Asian/Oceana carriers. Hawaiian/Island would get all of the interline traffic from all the other carriers. Hawaiian has (for only about 40 years now) demonstrated that they will compete on price. The 737s are not an optimal plane for the Hawaii inter-island frequencies. WN sold the 717s that would've worked to DL. I don't think HA is shaking in their flip-flops about WN being an major inter-island competitor.

spin88

+1. Hawaiian has focused on (a) building a loyal local base (like AS in SEA), and (b) differentiating itself on service and still having reasonable comfort.

Here in SF, lots of people I know go relatively often to Hawaii, and I have never, never, never heard a bad word about HA. Everyone who I know who has ever flown them (parents, relatives, friends, co-workers) has only had good things to say about them. What I hear about United is more of the "oh, crap, I have to take UA as they are the only direct SFO-LIH flight" most people I know avoid them to places (HNL, OGG) with alternatives.

100% Green

Do any airlines issue lei's upon landing? I always imagined that when I was young, and yet have never actually seen it.

JVPhoto

We got them a few times when we were kids (early 90s) but I think that was from the tour group/travel agency operators doing it.
The last few years I noticed it once and pretty sure the person lei'ing people had like a Hilton Vacations or something like that clipboard.

HNLbasedFlyer

I could've sworn you are a Delta fanboy, so you'll take SWA over Delta, Hawaiian, and Alaska? It's an easy decision?

spin88

always amazed by how people clip out things to change their meaning.

You left out this part from my post:

"That we are saying this, comparing the two is really an indictment of how United has become a bottom feeder airline.

But given the chances of an upgrade on UA is zero with TOD upgrades, and the generally horrible experience, unless I am paying for F, given a choice of SW's program (with a companion pass) or UA's program, SW is a much better option IMHO for most folks.

Not really sure what UA's value or loyalty proposition is at this point on these routes."

I, have others, including the poster I was responding two were discussing how UA stacks up vs WN.

As a non-elite, its an easy call, WN to Hawaii would be better than UA.

But if I am not paying for F, and if I was going often to Hawaii (e.g. I have looked at buying a place in Kula, or alternatively the north shore of Kauii) I would seriously look at WN for the companion pass, and I'm a guy who generally avoids WN.

But more generally airlines go in waves. I was a "fan" of United from when I bailed on CO in 2006 until May of 2012, after that I have not been a fan. While there are some things I don't like about DL (skypesos anyone), I have gotten generally exemplary service from them both as a non-elite (2012-2014 flying on my AS number) and elite since 2014. I have also gotten very good service from VX. YMMV.

I have flown either VX (last trip to OGG) or UA (last trip to LIH) to Hawaii, as you know DL (and AS) are not options ex-SFO, although I am not against going over to OAK.

formeraa

But I personally know many younger Asians and Europeans who use Southwest for their intra-US travel. For Asians, these *A/OW/ST connecting flights can be outrageiously expensive.

garykung

I was given once by UA about 1-2 years ago, as a 1K in E+ departing for HNL-GUM before takeoff.

Seriously.

First, intra-US usually means CONUS, which means AK and HI are explicitly excluded (as they are considered as OCONUS).

Second, again - it costs to run a Hawaiian - CONUS route. So even WN enters the market, it will not dramatically change how the game is played.

spin88

People keep saying this, but no offense, I see no basis what so ever for it. SFO-LIH is 2458 miles, LAX-LIH is 2626 miles. Everywhere else in Hawaii is a slightly shorter distance wise (e.g. HNL is 2556 from LAX). These ranges are not at the outer edge of the current gen (A320/A321, B738/739ER and ought to be able to be flown every efficiently, and short of random events, with a full load. The only real issue is that airlines trying to use the B739ER run into runway issues since the thing is such a dog performance wise. And the higher efficiency A321neo and B738/9MAX will address any issue with range when there are winds.

There is also substantial cargo traffic to/from Hawaii.

There are few/no ATC delays in Hawaii, and seldom weather issues. Many flights are run as turns. It is basically a long TCON distance wise, but with less waiting around.

Jet A is more expensive in Hawaii, but I think most airlines (at least UA AFAIK) fly in the meals for the return flight. It is not like United cleans its planes.

I just don't see how running a long stage length to Hawaii (provided there is then a turn) makes it materially more expensive as everyone appears to suggest.

HNLbasedFlyer

Well - there is this:

http://www.airfarewatchdog.com/blog/...r-mile-basis/#

"these ETOPS-certified aircraft require much more frequent maintenance checks of engines, hydraulic systems, and other key components (extra maintenance checks means extra cost for the airline) and they must carry extra emergency oxygen and fire suppression canisters on board. They also have to carry more fuel than non-ETOPS aircraft, and of course extra fuel means extra weight which means burning extra fuel to carry that extra weight. They also carry more life rafts, which also adds weight and burns more fuel."

And I doubt the passenger flying aircraft carry all that much cargo to Hawaii (sure - some) - it either goes by ship or more dedicated air cargo carriers, in my opinion

BlueZebra

When United was running 747s in and out of HNL, and 777s in and out of OGG, they were flying LOTs of cargo.

bocastephen

Cargo is a huge part of the island/mainland market - in fact, it could be said that human passengers are just gravy on the cargo business which is the meat and potatoes of that market.