IAH-OIL-TRASH

Exactly how does this fit in with bag fee discussion? You might as well have said "Southwest has orange planes" - just as much relevance. I was hardly drinking UA Kool-Aid - if you read my post, I didn't pick one over the other. I'm actually somewhat ambivalent about WN's future presence. I just said it'll be interesting to see what their fares will be. No need to get belligerent or project anything else into what I posted.

mmack

[QUOTE=HNLbasedFlyer;2892809

But yes, the ability to get lie-flat seats on UA or a as a backup economy plus will trump at least for me as a Hawaii resident SWA[/QUOTE]

Except from HNL, there don't seem to be lie flat seats from the outer islands next year, at least Kauai.

CIT85

WN won't help with airfare from East Coast to HI. I was looking at mid-December RIC-LIH and the lowest fare I found on UA is ~$1600+, most flights are >$2000. I can go RIC-PVG for that fare.

cairns

Completely false. You don't know better than Seatguru and you sure don't know more than my knees.

If you don't want to fly them don't. But don't lie about them. I take their 800s from BWI to STL frequently.

minnyfly

It's not dubious, and the slimline adjustment goes the other way.

It's easy to see and feel the 32" even against the 31" in their 73Gs. WN's 738s are arguably the best domestic narrowbody ride in Y-. The room over the now standard 30" feels huge. Add on the Sky interior, live TV, and the best complementary snacks, and it's really nice. Only major miss is the lack of power.

spin88

How about 1/2 entirely correct, and 1/2 not correct. Pitch figures are accurate, as its an objective measure. If any airline lied about it, it would be fraud. While a "slim-line" seat with 31" pitch may be claimed to feel like a 32" pitch, the pitch is still 31" and that is what is reported. You have 1" more pitch, and whether it is "used" by a thicker seat, or gives more distance between the seat back in front is an issue of seat design, not the measurement.

This is very different than "seat width" as there is no set measurement. Some airlines (see UA, SWA) have tried to game the system by making the arm rests narrower while keeping a wider seat cushion, but it does not impact the actual space you get. Other really horrible bottom of the barrel airlines (UA at 3-4-3 ) have made the aisles narrower by 1" on wide bodies, which allows them to claim slightly larger seats.

Seat Guru's width measurements are wrong/misleading in some cases.

The physical constraints of cabin width defines how much "effective space" there is, which is arm rests+seat cushion. For various aircraft this space is :

-A380 (at 10x, lower deck) has 21.8”/seat (at 8x, upper deck) has 23.8"/seat
-777 (at 9x) has 21.3"/seat
-763 (at 7x) has 21.2”/seat
-A319/320/321 ceo and neo (at 6x) has 21.2”/seat

-A330/330neo (at 8x) has 20.8"/seat
- A350 (at 9x) has 20.3”/seat
-747 (at 10x) has 20.2”/seat
-737/757/737MAX (at 6x) has 20”/seat

-787 (at 9x) has 19.8"/seat
-777x (at 10x) has 19.7/seat
-777 (at 10x, using 18” aisles as UA is, which is why they are so narrow) has 19.4”/seat

spin88

Unlike Jeffy "penny wise, pound foolish" Smisik and his doppleganger Scott "I'm not the drunk one" Kirby and their cost cutting ways, SWA has invested $500M in a new reservation system, see https://www.bizjournals.com/denver/n...tem-means.html which is coming on line now, and so far has been a rather uneventful change over.

Part of this is to be able to run red-eyes. Absent a red-eye turn, aircraft scheduling to Hawaii is very difficult, and I have no doubt that like with most other carriers, some (perhaps most) of the returns on WN will be red-eyes. The time change combined with the distance, plus he need to have later depatures to allow for connecting flow, make red-eyes just a fact of life for much Hawaii traffic.

LIH

Now that I'm not based on the west coast the often lie-flat configuration from DEN <> LIH is part of what keeps me loyal to UA. Since I have to connect somewhere no matter what I prefer the flight time/distance from DEN as opposed to SFO/LAX as well, especially on the red eyes on the way home when an extra hour of sleep can make a big difference.

This is also a route where I'm sure most of the up-front space is actually sold (or at least converts miles at a pretty expensive rate) so I'm not sure how much more competition in Y fares is going to make UA retreat or anything. I remember days of $400-500 RT west coast <> outer islands. I haven't seen those type of fare sales/battles for quite a number of years.

fly18725

The old reservation system did not prevent Southwest from running red eyes.

IAH-OIL-TRASH

I agree for partially another reason. Aircraft utilization (combined with scheduling/connections) is also a main driver of red-eyes. Hawaii redeyes are great for increasing utilization for aircraft that would otherwise be parked overnight on/near Left Coast. Early morning departures ex-California and same day return would actually require WN to add more aircraft.

HNLbasedFlyer

I've read a lot of the comments on no change fees. I can speak from experience that the UA flights are almost 100% going out full to SF (I'm hard pressed to remember a non-full flight and I go every single week HNL-SFO. The change fee argument is moot if the SWA flights are full and you can't get a seat - unless they flood the market with flights, the ability to change flights might end up very limited unless the change is several days out.

Kacee

Sorry, you lost me there. It's not even close.

Congrats. I fly them pretty frequently, including yesterday, b/c it's 45 minutes extra for me to cross the bay. If you think 32" pitch on WN is the same as 32" pitch on SQ you're delusional.

SPLITTERZ

Yep. About 48 lie-flat seats offered today in/out of LIH.

writerguyfl

I used to work at Walt Disney World in the Reservations Center. Pretty much all of our clientele were leisure travelers. As seenitall notes, many leisure travelers make changes to reservations because they tend to book far in advance just to hold something. As trips get closer, many of those families will make changes to the itinerary once arrangements like work schedules and house/pet-sitters are finalized.

The ability to adjust flights without paying a change fee is huge for those types of travelers.

As noted above, leisure travelers will make changes to flights weeks or even months in advance. As such, the ability to make free changes is still a valid perk. Although, since Southwest is more leisure-oriented, it still may be a challenge finding seats on a different flight.

transportprof

If you look ahead in the schedule, these 752s downgauge into 738s. I was looking around Valentine's Day for the weekend.