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-   -   Refuse an Upgrade? (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/united-airlines-mileageplus/1870131-refuse-upgrade.html)

1k-all-the-way May 14, 17 5:50 am

Refuse an Upgrade?
 
I know I the answer is on the board somewhere, but searchig is not finding it.

I have PSP-LAX-EWR with an upgrade requested using a RPU. PSP-LAX cleared. Woo-hoo!
LAX-EWR looks just about full, and still a week out.

Questions: If LAX-EWR does not clear, have I used RPU for a 20 minute RJ flight?
Can I undo the cleared segment and only request the LAX-EWR segment?

I think I read once that no, this is now all a done deal, but want to confirm if that's true. Thanks!

Nihon_Ni May 14, 17 8:17 am


Originally Posted by 1k-all-the-way (Post 28309349)
I know I the answer is on the board somewhere, but searchig is not finding it.

I have PSP-LAX-EWR with an upgrade requested using a RPU. PSP-LAX cleared. Woo-hoo!
LAX-EWR looks just about full, and still a week out.

Questions: If LAX-EWR does not clear, have I used RPU for a 20 minute RJ flight?
Can I undo the cleared segment and only request the LAX-EWR segment?

I think I read once that no, this is now all a done deal, but want to confirm if that's true. Thanks!

If any segment of a RPU clears then you've used the whole instrument. I'm not sure if you can undo it now.

In the future you can call in and apply the RPU to the long leg (you have to do it on the phone), and once that clears you can call back and have them apply it to the short leg too.

WineCountryUA May 14, 17 11:17 am


Originally Posted by 1k-all-the-way (Post 28309349)
... Can I undo the cleared segment and only request the LAX-EWR segment? ....

Downgrading a clear segment may be possible.

Prior to day of travel, to downgrade, your original fare class needs to be available. If it is, the downgrade can be processed. If the original fare class is not available, that you may have to pay a fare differential.

On day of travel, most GA will handle the request if there is any economy space available -- do this as soon as the GA becomes available. Note the seat selection my be rather limited.


As mentioned, it is best (especially for a low probability PS segment) to only request the longer segment to start with. This can only be done on the phone.

If the short segment had not cleared, any phone agent should be able to remove the request.

kb1992 May 14, 17 12:48 pm

A question about canceling upgrades:

PVG-EWR waitlisted, EWR-BOS cleared using GPU, booked in W Class.

Interestingly, EWR-BOS shows original booking class W0. But as through fare, if we search PVG-EWR-BOS, then it shows W9 across the board.

Is it possible to downgrade EWR-BOS and get GPU back?

mahasamatman May 14, 17 1:02 pm


Originally Posted by kb1992 (Post 28310420)
Is it possible to downgrade EWR-BOS and get GPU back?

Since W is available on the throgh fare, it should work.

jsloan May 14, 17 1:37 pm


Originally Posted by kb1992 (Post 28310420)
A question about canceling upgrades:

PVG-EWR waitlisted, EWR-BOS cleared using GPU, booked in W Class.

Interestingly, EWR-BOS shows original booking class W0. But as through fare, if we search PVG-EWR-BOS, then it shows W9 across the board.

Is it possible to downgrade EWR-BOS and get GPU back?

It should be possible, as mahasamatman said. As an aside, if PVG-EWR doesn't clear, you'd get the GPU back anyway, so the only reason to remove the certificate is if you are no longer interested in the TPAC upgrade.

1k-all-the-way May 14, 17 3:03 pm


Originally Posted by WineCountryUA (Post 28310133)
Downgrading a clear segment may be possible.

Prior to day of travel, to downgrade, your original fare class needs to be available. If it is, the downgrade can be processed. If the original fare class is not available, that you may have to pay a fare differential.

On day of travel, most GA will handle the request if there is any economy space available -- do this as soon as the GA becomes available. Note the seat selection my be rather limited.


As mentioned, it is best (especially for a low probability PS segment) to only request the longer segment to start with. This can only be done on the phone.

If the short segment had not cleared, any phone agent should be able to remove the request.

Thank you. One SFo 1k learns from another. Think since I'm a 2MM and you're almost there, I should know this stuff. Guess I shouldn't feel like its too much of a waste, since they often expire on me since nothing ever clears.....

catbox9 Oct 3, 17 1:58 pm

Refuse an Upgrade?
 
I've got an upcoming trip coming up with someone where we're flying LAX-IAH-LGA. I have 2 RPUs and since this will likely be the last trip of the year I thought I'd apply them here. The person I'm traveling with isn't super keen on flying and I'd like us to be in the same cabin. This person has only been on a plane a few times and only in economy so it would be nice for them if I could get us moved to first class, but I'd rather we both sit in economy than only have one of us get upgraded. Can I refuse an upgrade if only 1 clears?

For whatever it's worth we're flying back EWR-LAX in business class as I had some miles to spare and people that rarely fly seem to enjoy lie-flat seats when they think we're flying economy.

BigPoppaCO Oct 3, 17 2:00 pm


Originally Posted by catbox9 (Post 28889613)
I've got an upcoming trip coming up with someone where we're flying LAX-IAH-LGA. I have 2 RPUs and since this will likely be the last trip of the year I thought I'd apply them here. The person I'm traveling with isn't super keen on flying and I'd like us to be in the same cabin. This person has only been on a plane a few times and only in economy so it would be nice for them if I could get us moved to first class, but I'd rather we both sit in economy than only have one of us get upgraded. Can I refuse an upgrade if only 1 clears?

For whatever it's worth we're flying back EWR-LAX in business class as I had some miles to spare and people that rarely fly seem to enjoy lie-flat seats when they think we're flying economy.

Yes, you can refuse them. I did last week when I got upgraded from row 21 on an A320 to seat 1A. At 6 2' i'd rather sit in coach

rittenhousesq Oct 3, 17 2:07 pm


Originally Posted by BigPoppaCO (Post 28889622)
Yes, you can refuse them. I did last week when I got upgraded from row 21 on an A320 to seat 1A. At 6 2' i'd rather sit in coach

But if in the meantime if they give your coach seat to someone else, will you be able to get it back again or will you be stuck in a middle seat in the last row?

Say Vandelay Oct 3, 17 2:14 pm


Originally Posted by rittenhousesq (Post 28889659)
But if in the meantime if they give your coach seat to someone else, will you be able to get it back again or will you be stuck in a middle seat in the last row?

That is a possibility if you get upgraded at the window or at the gate. (It has only happened to me on board and I say I don't want to move up.) You can always call and get it back quickly enough if the former, or ask the gate agent to take you off the list in the case of the latter especially if you and your companion are far apart on the list and it looks like only one will clear.

My suggestion if you are traveling with someone is put the non-elite person in the aisle or whatever the more desirable coach seat is, so yours will be less likely to filled if you get upgraded and want to downgrade.

catbox9 Oct 3, 17 2:29 pm


Originally Posted by rittenhousesq (Post 28889659)
But if in the meantime if they give your coach seat to someone else, will you be able to get it back again or will you be stuck in a middle seat in the last row?

That's my main concern.

Right now LAX-IAH has 10/16 first class seats empty and IAH-LGA has 7/16 empty (but E+ has only 7 seats filled :confused: ).

It would be nice to actually get some use out of an instrument at some point, but as a platinum upgrades of any sort are pretty few and far between these days. The flight is in 20 days so we shall see...

Of course I could always buy up to first right now for $709/person with 6 seats available on each segment :rolleyes: When I originally bought these tickets a week or so ago I could have paid less than $709/person in first so I'm not sure why they think I would pay that now (plus the original cost of the E tickets).
EDIT: I just checked and I can buy these exact flights from United right now for $503/person in first. Why would I pay more than that to upgrade it rather than just buy them from scratch if I wanted first that bad?

drewguy Oct 3, 17 2:53 pm

Are you on the same PNR? Wouldn't they clear together or not at all (at least until day of flight)?

drewguy Oct 3, 17 2:56 pm


Originally Posted by catbox9 (Post 28889731)
EDIT: I just checked and I can buy these exact flights from United right now for $503/person in first. Why would I pay more than that to upgrade it rather than just buy them from scratch if I wanted first that bad?

Perhaps your employer wouldn't pay for more than a coach ticket, but you really want to upgrade yourself (and by "you" I mean the hypothetical person UA is targeting).

catbox9 Oct 3, 17 3:09 pm


Originally Posted by drewguy (Post 28889834)
Are you on the same PNR? Wouldn't they clear together or not at all (at least until day of flight)?

We are on the same PNR. I'm not sure how upgrades work because I haven't tried to apply an instrument for a companion in years back when I was 1K and had GPUs to use internationally.


Originally Posted by drewguy (Post 28889843)
Perhaps your employer wouldn't pay for more than a coach ticket, but you really want to upgrade yourself (and by "you" I mean the hypothetical person UA is targeting).

Even if I was that hypothetical person, why wouldn't I just buy the first class ticket outright and not even bother having my employer buy me a ticket at all? I've never had a job where my employer flew me anywhere, but I can't imagine any employer would force you to make them buy you a ticket and force you to fly on it rather than paying for something else out of your own pocket - particularly if it's on the same flight.

WineCountryUA Oct 3, 17 3:25 pm


Originally Posted by catbox9 (Post 28889731)
.... EDIT: I just checked and I can buy these exact flights from United right now for $503/person in first. Why would I pay more than that to upgrade it rather than just buy them from scratch if I wanted first that bad?

Look to see what a "change flight" offer is, many times it is cheaper than the offer UA provides in My Reservations.

To get the change fee waived, you will have to call and if the fee is not automatically waived, mention "GG BUY UP"


Since you are on a common PNR, you will not be upgraded separately until the gate if you wait to checkin till you get to the airport. And then at the gate, tell the GA it is one or all.

catbox9 Oct 3, 17 3:39 pm


Originally Posted by WineCountryUA (Post 28889969)
Look to see what a "change flight" offer is, many times it is cheaper than the offer UA provides in My Reservations.

To get the change fee waived, you will have to call and if the fee is not automatically waived, mention "GG BUY UP"

For fun I tried to do that but I can't get a routing even close to the one I already have and for some reason it tells me there is no first class seats on any route and the best they can do is Coach (P). I thought a P fare was a premium cabin :confused:


Originally Posted by WineCountryUA (Post 28889969)
Since you are on a common PNR, you will not be upgraded separately until the gate if you wait to checkin till you get to the airport. And then at the gate, tell the GA it is one or all.

That's good to know. I had no idea it worked that way ^

WineCountryUA Oct 3, 17 3:47 pm


Originally Posted by catbox9 (Post 28890024)
For fun I tried to do that but I can't get a routing even close to the one I already have and for some reason it tells me there is no first class seats on any route and the best they can do is Coach (P). I thought a P fare was a premium cabin :confused: ....

Ignore the message, this is really First (P)

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...available.html

catbox9 Oct 3, 17 4:03 pm


Originally Posted by WineCountryUA (Post 28890054)
Ignore the message, this is really First (P)

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...available.html

So in that case the change would be $336 per person which is as you predicted much cheaper. For whatever reason I still can't manage to change to my original routing and would instead connect in Denver.

Either way it doesn't really matter as first class isn't worth $336 to me and I definitely don't want to pay for it for both my companion and myself, especially since we're flying a far superior first class home which should be sufficient to allow a novice flyer to at least sort of experience a premium cabin.

findark Oct 3, 17 4:17 pm


Originally Posted by catbox9 (Post 28890115)
So in that case the change would be $336 per person which is as you predicted much cheaper. For whatever reason I still can't manage to change to my original routing and would instead connect in Denver.

Either way it doesn't really matter as first class isn't worth $336 to me and I definitely don't want to pay for it for both my companion and myself, especially since we're flying a far superior first class home which should be sufficient to allow a novice flyer to at least sort of experience a premium cabin.

You can, at any time, be reticketed in the higher cabin (same flights) for the cost of a new ticket today, less what you paid for your current tickets. This should be pretty easy to calculate. But if not worth the likely ~$300 pp, then you won't see much better.

catbox9 Oct 3, 17 4:30 pm


Originally Posted by findark (Post 28890179)
But if not worth the likely ~$300 pp, then you won't see much better.

Back when I was a 1K and back when I used to get a CPU almost every time, I realized that first class wasn't really all that exciting. I'd say the value for me is about $8 for the 1 drink I feel compelled to order, $10 for the food, and then another $5/1000 miles for the extra comfort. As they don't usually have upgrades in the $25-40 range it's not really worth it. I'd go an extra $200-300 for an overnight flight with a lie-flat seat but again they don't sell it that cheap so I don't buy it.

frankmu Oct 3, 17 8:31 pm

Keep an eye out on your PNR, and make sure it doesn't get split. My wife and I were on the same PNR this weekend, but got split when we checked in on our return flight (SFO-EUG). We did not ask for the split.

She was first in line for the upgrade, me second. We were in Row 7 on a A319, and we both declined the upgrade to 1B. The GA came onboard with my wife's new boarding pass. The third person (only 3 on the upgrade list) got the nod, and was happy to take the seat. Probably a silver, since her seat (immediately behind us) filled 24 hours out.

Two Bee Oct 3, 17 11:28 pm

Yes, you can refuse an upgrade, but better do it before it goes thru. To my knowledge you can't move back unless your original fare purchased is available in the rear.

Unless things have changed?

WineCountryUA Oct 3, 17 11:42 pm


Originally Posted by Two Bee (Post 28891346)
Yes, you can refuse an upgrade, but better do it before it goes thru. To my knowledge you can't move back unless your original fare purchased is available in the rear.

Unless things have changed?

True requirement up til the gate. At the gate, not required. Plus most fare classes are opened up by 3 hours prior to departure for most flights except those nearly oversold.

mduell Oct 3, 17 11:58 pm


Originally Posted by catbox9 (Post 28889731)
Of course I could always buy up to first right now for $709/person with 6 seats available on each segment :rolleyes: When I originally bought these tickets a week or so ago I could have paid less than $709/person in first so I'm not sure why they think I would pay that now (plus the original cost of the E tickets).

OPMers.


Originally Posted by catbox9 (Post 28890227)
and then another $5/1000 miles for the extra comfort

$2/hr lol

dvs7310 Oct 4, 17 12:11 am

I've certainly refused upgrades, it's quite easy at the gate, more hit or miss if one clears before the day of the flight and the other doesn't and you're calling in to try to get your original seat reinstated. (I had the same refused upgrade re-clear 2 more times once during the window, finally got someone on the Premier Line who just upgraded my companion as well since there was R but the PNR was split earlier in the trip and she agreed that if it hadn't have split then we'd have both been upgraded together, this was well before the split PNR issue was fixed).

In my most recent case there were 2 seats available and my wife and I were #1 & #2 on the gate list but the seats were not together so I told the gate agent we didn't want them. She said no problem, took us off the list and gave it to an older couple who were #3 & #4 . They seemed quite happy to get them and didn't mind being split up for the flight.

txaggiemiles Oct 4, 17 7:12 am


Originally Posted by catbox9 (Post 28890227)
Back when I was a 1K and back when I used to get a CPU almost every time, I realized that first class wasn't really all that exciting. I'd say the value for me is about $8 for the 1 drink I feel compelled to order, $10 for the food, and then another $5/1000 miles for the extra comfort. As they don't usually have upgrades in the $25-40 range it's not really worth it. I'd go an extra $200-300 for an overnight flight with a lie-flat seat but again they don't sell it that cheap so I don't buy it.

ok, then why spend a whole day and multiple posts figuring out how to sit there? 🙄

catbox9 Oct 4, 17 7:44 am


Originally Posted by txaggiemiles (Post 28892198)
ok, then why spend a whole day and multiple posts figuring out how to sit there? 🙄

Just because I don't find it worth a whole lot extra, people that have only been on a plane a couple times find it quite enjoyable. If I'm traveling by myself sure, I'll take an upgrade on a domestic flight but it's not that big of a deal either way.

Aussienarelle Oct 4, 17 12:21 pm


Originally Posted by catbox9 (Post 28892276)
Just because I don't find it worth a whole lot extra, people that have only been on a plane a couple times find it quite enjoyable. If I'm traveling by myself sure, I'll take an upgrade on a domestic flight but it's not that big of a deal either way.

+1!

However, do not mess with my international upgrades.

On domestic I would often give my seat to a uniformed military personnel but these days UA has some rule that I cannot give away the UG seat (if I do not want the seat it needs to go to the next person on the list), but I can still do it when I have purchased the domestic first class seat (I verified this with the GA on my last flight). The young wo/man in uniform would always get a thrill (although I did not let them know it was me as it was a surprise from the GA) and I think it was the least I could do to thank them for their service so now these acts are fewer as I needed to have purchased the seat.

AceReport Oct 4, 17 12:24 pm


Originally Posted by Aussienarelle (Post 28893460)
+1!

However, do not mess with my international upgrades.

On domestic I would often give my seat to a uniformed military personnel but these days UA has some rule that I cannot give away the UG seat (if I do not want the seat it needs to go to the next person on the list), but I can still do it when I have purchased the domestic first class seat (I verified this with the GA on my last flight). The young wo/man in uniform would always get a thrill (although I did not let them know it was me as it was a surprise from the GA) and I think it was the least I could do to thank them for their service so now these acts are fewer as I needed to have purchased the seat.

The rule is very selectively enforced. I gave mine away this morning.

drewguy Oct 4, 17 2:21 pm


Originally Posted by Aussienarelle (Post 28893460)

On domestic I would often give my seat to a uniformed military personnel but these days UA has some rule that I cannot give away the UG seat (if I do not want the seat it needs to go to the next person on the list)

How does this differ from swapping with your spouse if only one of you gets upgraded? Limiting it to swaps with someone on the same PNR doesn't even work because of the auto-splitting that occurs.

Aussienarelle Oct 4, 17 3:23 pm


Originally Posted by drewguy (Post 28893980)
How does this differ from swapping with your spouse if only one of you gets upgraded? Limiting it to swaps with someone on the same PNR doesn't even work because of the auto-splitting that occurs.


I was informed the rule dies not apply for family members.

chavala Oct 4, 17 4:44 pm


Originally Posted by Aussienarelle (Post 28894192)
I was informed the rule dies not apply for family members.

How would they know if you're family members? I don't have the same last name as any of mine.

Lani1 Oct 6, 17 12:49 am

737-9 refuse all the time of row 5 and I have exit row

Kevin AA Oct 6, 17 1:44 am


Originally Posted by catbox9 (Post 28890227)
Back when I was a 1K and back when I used to get a CPU almost every time, I realized that first class wasn't really all that exciting. I'd say the value for me is about $8 for the 1 drink I feel compelled to order, $10 for the food, and then another $5/1000 miles for the extra comfort. As they don't usually have upgrades in the $25-40 range it's not really worth it. I'd go an extra $200-300 for an overnight flight with a lie-flat seat but again they don't sell it that cheap so I don't buy it.

I once did a similar calculation, but I accounted for the extra space as follows: sq ft of an F seat/sq ft of a Y seat times avg Y fare is the extra fare that should be assessed for that larger seat.

For example, avg Y fare $300; E- seat is 31" pitch and 17.3" width on a 737; F is 38x21. This means E- is 3.72 sq ft and F is 5.54 sq ft (yes, E+ is in the middle, one can repeat the calculation for E+). 5.54/3.72*$300=$446, an extra $146. It's $74 more compared to E+. In any event, it's much more than $2 an hour.

Two Bee Oct 6, 17 11:15 am


Originally Posted by Lani1 (Post 28899377)
737-9 refuse all the time of row 5 and I have exit row

Yep, having someone's butt in my face, waiting to use the lav, for hours and NO RECLINE is pure torture!

+ I'll take 7A or 7F (even 21C or 21D) anytime over the front row on a 320! My legs need stretchin".

drewguy Oct 6, 17 12:49 pm


Originally Posted by Kevin AA (Post 28899469)
I once did a similar calculation, but I accounted for the extra space as follows: sq ft of an F seat/sq ft of a Y seat times avg Y fare is the extra fare that should be assessed for that larger seat.

For example, avg Y fare $300; E- seat is 31" pitch and 17.3" width on a 737; F is 38x21. This means E- is 3.72 sq ft and F is 5.54 sq ft (yes, E+ is in the middle, one can repeat the calculation for E+). 5.54/3.72*$300=$446, an extra $146. It's $74 more compared to E+. In any event, it's much more than $2 an hour.

You're comparing different things - PP's personal valuation vs. your cost based valuation. PP doesn't find the additional cost worth it, to him. YMMV of course.

On international I did something similar - the J seats basically take up about 4x the space of an E seat. Obviously prices vary based on demand/load, but I've seen the relative pricing of Y and J often be roughly this. Presumably the meals, liquor, and bedding come out of the savings on fuel costs for 1 pax vs. 4.

mcrw00 Apr 10, 19 10:33 am

Removing a miles upgrade if you don't get the seat you want
 
I'm fairly new to United. About to take a full flight to TLV in Y was unable to get a window seat nor Economy Plus.
There is currently one window seat available in Premium Select, so I am thinking to waitlist myself for a PS mileage upgrade.
That being said, I only want the upgrade if the window seat stays available and no window seat in regular Y opens.

If the upgrade clears and those conditions are not met, will I be allowed to refuse the upgrade? Will this create a lot of stress/frustration on the part of the gate agents if it happens right before departure?

Kacee Apr 10, 19 11:22 am


Originally Posted by mcrw00 (Post 30985526)
If the upgrade clears and those conditions are not met, will I be allowed to refuse the upgrade? Will this create a lot of stress/frustration on the part of the gate agents if it happens right before departure?

It's potentially problematic. They would be fully justified in (i) only allowing a downgrade back to Y if your original economy fare class is still available, and (ii) charging an award redeposit fee ($125 if you have no status) if you want your miles back. And yes, there's a good chance you would make the GAs unhappy.

Or they could do you a favor and it could be done no problem. But I would definitely not count on that.

ContinentalFan Apr 10, 19 1:31 pm


Originally Posted by Kacee (Post 30985675)
It's potentially problematic. They would be fully justified in (i) only allowing a downgrade back to Y if your original economy fare class is still available, and (ii) charging an award redeposit fee ($125 if you have no status) if you want your miles back. And yes, there's a good chance you would make the GAs unhappy.

Or they could do you a favor and it could be done no problem. But I would definitely not count on that.

Add to that, if they reassigned your window seat in Y, you could end up in a middle seat at the back of the plane.

If you want to be sure of a window seat, Id stay put.


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