Refuse an Upgrade?
#31
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Washington, DC
Programs: UA 1K 1MM, AA, DL
Posts: 7,404
How does this differ from swapping with your spouse if only one of you gets upgraded? Limiting it to swaps with someone on the same PNR doesn't even work because of the auto-splitting that occurs.
#32
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: SAN
Programs: 1K (since 2008), *G (since 1990), 1MM
Posts: 3,213
#33
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: MFR
Programs: UA 1K 1.9MM, Hilton Gold, Marriott Gold
Posts: 2,872
#35
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: RNO
Programs: AA/DL/UA
Posts: 10,747
Back when I was a 1K and back when I used to get a CPU almost every time, I realized that first class wasn't really all that exciting. I'd say the value for me is about $8 for the 1 drink I feel compelled to order, $10 for the food, and then another $5/1000 miles for the extra comfort. As they don't usually have upgrades in the $25-40 range it's not really worth it. I'd go an extra $200-300 for an overnight flight with a lie-flat seat but again they don't sell it that cheap so I don't buy it.
For example, avg Y fare $300; E- seat is 31" pitch and 17.3" width on a 737; F is 38x21. This means E- is 3.72 sq ft and F is 5.54 sq ft (yes, E+ is in the middle, one can repeat the calculation for E+). 5.54/3.72*$300=$446, an extra $146. It's $74 more compared to E+. In any event, it's much more than $2 an hour.
#36
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: LAS
Programs: 3 MMer
Posts: 458
#37
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Washington, DC
Programs: UA 1K 1MM, AA, DL
Posts: 7,404
I once did a similar calculation, but I accounted for the extra space as follows: sq ft of an F seat/sq ft of a Y seat times avg Y fare is the extra fare that should be assessed for that larger seat.
For example, avg Y fare $300; E- seat is 31" pitch and 17.3" width on a 737; F is 38x21. This means E- is 3.72 sq ft and F is 5.54 sq ft (yes, E+ is in the middle, one can repeat the calculation for E+). 5.54/3.72*$300=$446, an extra $146. It's $74 more compared to E+. In any event, it's much more than $2 an hour.
For example, avg Y fare $300; E- seat is 31" pitch and 17.3" width on a 737; F is 38x21. This means E- is 3.72 sq ft and F is 5.54 sq ft (yes, E+ is in the middle, one can repeat the calculation for E+). 5.54/3.72*$300=$446, an extra $146. It's $74 more compared to E+. In any event, it's much more than $2 an hour.
On international I did something similar - the J seats basically take up about 4x the space of an E seat. Obviously prices vary based on demand/load, but I've seen the relative pricing of Y and J often be roughly this. Presumably the meals, liquor, and bedding come out of the savings on fuel costs for 1 pax vs. 4.
#38
Join Date: Jun 2011
Programs: United Premier Platinum
Posts: 638
Removing a miles upgrade if you don't get the seat you want
I'm fairly new to United. About to take a full flight to TLV in Y was unable to get a window seat nor Economy Plus.
There is currently one window seat available in Premium Select, so I am thinking to waitlist myself for a PS mileage upgrade.
That being said, I only want the upgrade if the window seat stays available and no window seat in regular Y opens.
If the upgrade clears and those conditions are not met, will I be allowed to refuse the upgrade? Will this create a lot of stress/frustration on the part of the gate agents if it happens right before departure?
There is currently one window seat available in Premium Select, so I am thinking to waitlist myself for a PS mileage upgrade.
That being said, I only want the upgrade if the window seat stays available and no window seat in regular Y opens.
If the upgrade clears and those conditions are not met, will I be allowed to refuse the upgrade? Will this create a lot of stress/frustration on the part of the gate agents if it happens right before departure?
#39
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AS 75K; UA 1MM; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott LTP; Hilton Diamond (Aspire)
Posts: 56,300
Or they could do you a favor and it could be done no problem. But I would definitely not count on that.
#40
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Los Angeles, California
Programs: United, American, Hyatt, Hilton, Hertz, Marriott
Posts: 14,741
It's potentially problematic. They would be fully justified in (i) only allowing a downgrade back to Y if your original economy fare class is still available, and (ii) charging an award redeposit fee ($125 if you have no status) if you want your miles back. And yes, there's a good chance you would make the GAs unhappy.
Or they could do you a favor and it could be done no problem. But I would definitely not count on that.
Or they could do you a favor and it could be done no problem. But I would definitely not count on that.
If you want to be sure of a window seat, Id stay put.
#41
Join Date: Jul 2011
Programs: UA 1K 2MM
Posts: 85
The RPU will be credited back if LAX > EWR does not clear. I have had this happen a bunch when the significantly shorter leg clears but the long leg does not. Just like with domestic legs & GPUs when the international leg does not clear. Take the upgrade and smile (for a very few minutes).
#42
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: SBP
Programs: UA 1K, Marriott Titanium, Marriott Lifetime Platinum, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 533
Flying SFO-AMS. I had bulkhead window E+ and I hear my name paged at the gate. I try to talk to agent but she said my name wasn't paged (her pronunciation of my name was pretty bad).
I'm now in seat 21E (premium plus). Not sure this is an upgrade as there's not even room to get up without disturbing someone and I no longer have a window to sleep on. I wasn't able to talk to an agent because she insisted she didn't call my name.
When I boarded the plane with the wrong ticket nothing even notified me that my seat changed which was a bit odd as well. If not for the app I would've never known until someone else came to my old seat.
Would it have been possible to turn this upgrade down? Flight sold out so not really a way to get that seat back, but I'm not sure I'd ever pay extra for this seat as to me it's a big downgrade.
I'm now in seat 21E (premium plus). Not sure this is an upgrade as there's not even room to get up without disturbing someone and I no longer have a window to sleep on. I wasn't able to talk to an agent because she insisted she didn't call my name.
When I boarded the plane with the wrong ticket nothing even notified me that my seat changed which was a bit odd as well. If not for the app I would've never known until someone else came to my old seat.
Would it have been possible to turn this upgrade down? Flight sold out so not really a way to get that seat back, but I'm not sure I'd ever pay extra for this seat as to me it's a big downgrade.
#43
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 21,186
Turn down the upgrade and get your old seat assignment back? That could be tougher.
By the time she paged you, the agent had probably put someone else into your seat.
#44
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: SBP
Programs: UA 1K, Marriott Titanium, Marriott Lifetime Platinum, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 533
Not sure what to think about premium plus. It's marginally better than E+ but the best E+ seat is almost certainly better than the worst premium plus seat and that makes it a tough sell to me. I've flown these cabin quite a few times and I've never really felt like I was treated like a premium passenger.
#45
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 21,186
It'd be nice if the agent had called you up to let you know that the only available seat was an aisle and asked if you wanted it. Unfortunately, not all agents will do that, as you discovered.