ftweb

Maybe they hold it to be a luxury because it often costs north of $7000, which is a lot more than steak dinners and extra hotel nights. However, for what it's worth, my employer has an $80 limit on dinner, but no cap on business class travel for 9+-hour trips.

But you are caricaturing my position, here. I'm saying that I would like a business class seat, but it's worth $4000 to me, not $7000. If I have a choice between A) flying non-UA metal for $4000, B) flying UA J for $7000, or C) flying UA Y for $1200 with a 50% chance of a $600 upgrade, then I'm saying C is the better value. There are other things that can bring my company greater utility than the $5200 I'd pay for a UA J ticket. Also, 50% is conservative. I do well on international upgrades, even as a lowly 1K--definitely not like CPUs, which I get about once every two years and only if I'm flying on a Saturday.

I just flew 10,000 miles in coach, landed somewhere at 2am, and had an important meeting far from my hotel at 2pm. Was I super happy about this? No. (Was it hell? Only because the FA bumped into my aisle seat and woke me up 5 times after which I couldn't fall back asleep.) But as long as I don't have to do this too often, and knowing that this helps me requalify for 1K and get lifetime miles, I still prefer it to option A.

Artpen100

I’m pretty much with ftweb. I don’t mind that our company has an economy-only policy for everyone, to everywhere. In fact, I like the egalitarian nature of it. But what makes it work for me flying internationally is that we are also free to book our own flights without restriction. So I will look for R, or O on AF, or whatever airline I can get an upgrade on with miles, with or without a connection. I will pay the difference for business out of my own pocket occasionally if it is cheap.

I am a little older now, so having a lie flat seat is important to me. And I also recognize that if I am responsible for the success of the meeting I am traveling for, I’d better not be jet lagged.

findark

I was including overhead cost - not all that unusual to find a situation where the difference in fare is $2,500 per direction or more.

But that's kind of my point. I don't think whether something is a "luxury" is really about how much it costs in absolute terms. Is traveling on a $1,000 h/r/t Y ticket to Asia "more luxurious" than an $800 dinner at Alinea? Most companies apparently (based on their policies) think that it's important that employees stay in upmarket hotel chains that are very close to the office or customer location (nobody asks me to stay at a Motel 6 and take a bus 30m each way to the office). They don't want to quibble whether I eat at McDonald's, Chipotle, or an upscale steakhouse.

I recognize that sometimes a J ticket is $8k+ and that might be unreasonable compared to a Y ticket that is $1k. But I really wish more people looked at it as a value proposition: "flying my employee in reasonable comfort is really expensive" vs. "this is an absurd luxury no one deserves". Often-times an employee who cares (like an FTer) can route creatively to get upgrades or cheaper fares. I note that both of you cited this as your travel habit, and yet at many companies you can get fired for this (choosing a more expensive itinerary or booking a higher fare class just for upgrades). My company is thankfully relatively flexible about this (it's small, and I'm very grateful). Others are not. It would be nicer still if extra work (e.g. a split-ticket overnight in BUD on the way to Europe) would be rewarded as a creative way to compromise and stay in J, rather than dismissed as senseless indulgence.


Google's travel policy in this regard is actually pretty good - it's holistic and based on the actual cost of your travel versus the city pair, and lets employees choose what aspects of the travel they care about. I'm fortunate enough to work for a small company now where they can be flexible about such things. All I'm really saying is that I wish more companies understood that J class travel actually has real value to employees.

DA201

That's $533.75 per r/t. This means she probably flies only EWR/LAX/SFO/IAH/ORD-SIN/HKG. Maybe SFO/LAX-NRT or DEN-SIN as well. Even with those flights, which are historically cheap, she has got to fly them on especially cheap days.

WineCountryUA

That's PQDs. List price probably more like $650-$700.

ftweb

What makes something a luxury is how much it costs relative to other ways people do it, and how big a value it adds to the job you are doing. An $800 dinner at Alinea is a luxury because of how much that costs compared to most dinners and the fact that the value to most people's work is equivalent to a meal 1/10th the price. But this is subjective. I know someone who actually had a work dinner at Single Thread--probably the most comparable restaurant in the Bay Area right now. I love Single Thread, but would never dream of expensing a meal there even if I could. On the other hand, I certainly will expense a place like RTB Fillmore because it's only $89, even though the quality is about 3 notches higher than what I really need. (In practice, I have to suck it up and pay the part over $80/person out of pocket because of my employer's policy, but I still find it worthwhile because of the quality and value the meal...)

I know people who could easily afford to fly on private jets everywhere and obviously find it more comfortable. One of them explained to me that the only time he will ever do it is when it is required for two different meetings in different cities that can't be accommodated by commercial flight schedules. Obviously Steve Mnuchin would disagree, but I think my friend has the only responsible attitude. On the other hand, if private jets cost only 2x the price of an F fare, my friend would probably always fly private to avoid wasting his precious time at the airport. Everything is a a question of cost/benefit and you have to consider both sides of the equation.

ermintrude

It's ridiculously easy to get the CC spend waiver. MS as a last resort if you really need to - I can't be bothered with MS so I don't know what opportunities there currently are but I'm sure there is a forum for that somewhere.

ftweb

Sorry for the ignorance. CC is obviously the credit card waiver for Chase MileagePlus credit cards, but what is MS?

Repooc17

$25K may be ridiculously easy for you, but that may not be the case for everyone. Also, 1 mile (or 1.5 miles) per dollar spend is low given RoRs from other comparable credit cards.

WineCountryUA

Manufactured Spend -- a process to general purchased dollars credits and mileage points on credit cards without actually spending money (or just a minimal new amount).

FT Manufacture Spend

exerda

It's a moot point because my company follows DoD and GSA guidelines for our travel, but you make a good point regarding the "give them extra time to rest up to make up for the Y flight" bit. A full time (8 hour) day of my time will cost roughly a hair more than $1k (if I worked in-house instead of at a customer site, it would be closer to $1.5k)... Then add the hotel + meals for that extra day on each end of the trip. At that point, it definitely makes considering the cost of C vs. Y something the company should take a closer look at than the simple fare difference.

ecofreak

you can do better these days, such as CTU-BOS roundtrip for close to 20k PQM, with $450 total (~370 PQD).

Flyingwasabi

Go change her address. Since you already have a legit oversea property and trust her with your life, just do the paperwork and change her address.
She’s above 1k already, the CC waiver only brings her to platinum i think... 1k is always better than platinum right?

username

I think using a foreign address when UA knows one's travel pattern is risky.

k.hiramoto

Doesn't this depend?

Ah, in my particular case, I've been accruing my ana flights to their program recently...