Should LH return GPU with Involuntary Downgrade?
 

Applied a GPU confirmed within 30 minute for a LH 400 flight FRA-JFK from C to F
Morning of flight aircraft swap from A380 with F to a 747-400 with no F -A380 was mechanical
Given Euro1000 compensation (which ive still not received on my amex card) for having to sit in C instead of F to JFK No ground services at JFK as F pax
Should LH return the GPU to my account? If so should I contact United 1k desk to force issue?
To make matters worse LH put me from O class into I class on the 747-400 I have a paid RTW ticket in D class

United should return the GPU. LH doesn't really know about GPUs and I wouldn't expect them to instruct UA to return it.

I'm not sure whether €1000 is the right compensation for a downgrade under EU261/2004 -- seems like that could be lowball. I think it might be 75% of fare paid, even if you used upgrade instruments? Good luck figuring that out (could be very lucrative) (the BA forum knows this pretty well because F=>CW is not altogether unseen and pays very well).

Whichever mileage program you credit the journey to (MileagePlus?) should handle giving credit for D instead of I but may not be automatic. Good luck, hope you saved your original e-ticket receipt and boarding pass just in case.

Thanks
Yes I thought it was a ______ downgrade amount -at least I still got to use the First Clas slounges and terminal and a cayenne drive to ...... LH Business class on the 7474 Have original F board pass from checking in online and also board pass given at FRA in C
Ive contacted LH in Australia who are much more responsive than LH in DE about the mileage credit
Do you think I should ask United to get the GPU back from LH?

Getting the GPU returned is going to be up to United. I would probably follow up with MPSC around the same time the flight posts, so you can check that it posts correctly as D class.

Thanks for that

You definitely have to get the GPU back from United, and it shouldn't be an issue.

OP - Your compensation under EC 261/2004 is 75% of the base fare ticket cost FRA-JFK, e.g. no taxes & fees.

Put the GPU aside for a moment and call LH and ask how the EUR 1000 was calculated. LH is pretty good about those calculations, so it is likely OK. But, it is worth checking.

Turning to the GPU, as noted, LH doesn't deal in GPU's and can't return it. But, if UA asks, LH will detail the e-ticket activity. However, if LH authorizes the GPU release, that is a revenue loss to LH which is quite sticky about that.

You may well find that LH either balks or is willing to let the GPU go in return for the cash compensation. Unlikely that you will wind up with EUR 1,000 + GPU.

The compensation is if the "air carrier places a passenger in a class lower than that for which the ticket was purchased"

In this case the OP flew in the cabin for which the ticket was purchased. No compensation was required.

It's an "either-or" question.
You should not get the compensation from LH and the GPU back from United.

I am pretty sure LH will provide evidence to UA that you were upgraded and then downgraded with a compensation. Therefore LH used your GPU to "pay" the compensation.

Legally it's attempted fraud to ask for both.

Updated policy came into effect on 1-Nov-16:

As you upgaded, you were booked in O => 1000€ compensation

Your comment is not correct. Downgrade from O is compensated with 1000 EUR (see above post). The OP should be happy to get them, as 75% of nothing (he did not pay for F, as he upgraded), is still nothing.

Attempted fraud? You're a bit over-dramatic.

OP should get both the compensation and the returned GPU. OP would get both the compensation and the GPU returned if this were a UA flight. OP should contact UA to get the GPU returned.

It is not a comment. It is the law. You are completely wrong and should carefully read EC 261/2004 before posting.

In the case of a downgrade, the passenger is entitled to 75% of the segment ticket cost. Not the cost of the UG, but the ticket for that segment.

In Guidance, albeit non-binding, issued in June 2016, now 15 months ago, the EC makes it clear that EC 261/2004 downgrade compensation applies when something of value such as miles or a certificate is used to accomplish an upgrade. The Regulation does not apply in the case of a free upgrade, e.g. an OPUP.

There may be occasions when compensation under the Regulation is below what LH is prepared to provide. Needless to say, LH is free to do that. BA, by way of example, does this in its calculations as well. There are occasions when the customer service gesture exceeds the requirement.

To answer the actual topic of this thread...yes, UA will refund your GPU. Contact the 1K line and tell them that you used a GPU to upgrade J -> F but that LH had a mechanical issue and an equipment swap. The swap resulted in a flight with no "F" offered so LH put you back in business.

UA doesn't need to know or should they care that you received compensation for the downgrade. That's a purely academic exercise with LH and the EU rules that they are bound by.

You also don't need to wait for the flight to post to your account to get the GPU back. If this was an LH-ticketed flight (not 016 ticket stock) then there's a very good chance the flight will not post correctly. If this is a 016 ticket then I suspect the flight will actually post OK.

Call UA and ask for the GPU back. Plain and simple.

-RM

I don't know what is required by law, but I will say that I got downgraded C => PE on a GPU upgraded from a Q fare and got the offered €800 plus the LH gate agent got my GPU back (it took them a while, but they did it). I volunteered, though (as in, "the offered €800"....everyone was happy that day).

I stay with it. It is attempted fraud. One also can read it out of the remarks from several comments in this thread stating that "UA does not have to know that you got a compensation", ...
I hope for you that LH is not cross checking with UA. If they do the chance is quite high that they will try to get the money back and if not successful may tty to go to court. They have done it for smaller amounts than 1000€.

If it is fraud, it's fraud an LH gate agent helped me execute without prompting or complaint on my end. And that was €800 back to my credit card, by the way, not a voucher.