"The Points Guy" takes the mickey out of United & Polaris
#76
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,324
Yep. Although I've flown 45 carriers, this was my first time in United international business class. So, how would I know about the meal ordering hierarchy? This review is meant to be a guide for those who aren't UA 1Ks and don't know the ins-and-outs of the airline - not 1Ks that clearly already know not only the product but the nuances UA's meal service.
With all due respect, perhaps you should attempt to fly once again on United in a 3-class 747 or 777 in C before making such dramatic proclamations and conclusions. You had a bad flight. I just had one in Delta business, my first time on their old 777s. That doesn't mean I go all "Nagoya" on Delta (though I did go there on UA in 2004 ).
#77
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Eurozone
Programs: LH SEN, HH Gold
Posts: 3,002
Ah, but I indeed stated that the truths were truths. You've not truly yielded the existence of such in this case. So, we are not on the same plane (no pun intended).
Last edited by Grog; Aug 10, 2017 at 10:07 am
#78
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: MRY - CNX - TXL
Programs: UA 1K / *G / Marriott PE / Expedia Gold+ / Hertz PC
Posts: 7,058
Well you've said that you are a full time travel blogger so I guess knowing the industry/company/product you're writing about or is every flight meant to be a blind taste test?
#79
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 674
There was another point that I missed here
Actually chewing tobacco is expressly prohibited. I've heard that announced many times.
You should only have to mention it to any FA once and they should address it immediately. Anything else constitutes a major failure and is manifestly "UA's fault," just as it would be if they allowed someone to smoke throughout the flight.
Actually chewing tobacco is expressly prohibited. I've heard that announced many times.
You should only have to mention it to any FA once and they should address it immediately. Anything else constitutes a major failure and is manifestly "UA's fault," just as it would be if they allowed someone to smoke throughout the flight.
1. Exactly. FA should enforce rules. If they are unsure, they should check their manual.
2. Why should there be ANY push-back in changing seats when there are empty ones available?
3. Why is customer service on the ground lying to the customer being tolerated?
#80
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: LHR, HKG
Programs: gate lice
Posts: 315
This conversation has been flogged to death over the last decade.
United launched this product in 2006, and it was heralded as industry leading among it's US peers at that time, being the first lie flat of any US carrier in C (AMR/UAL had F suites in F for years before then).
A poll of FTers during integration-time even showed a near 50/50 parity preference between IPTE C and B/E Diamond seat. Remind me where the storage is in the latter seat, or in BA C for that matter. IPTE has amazing cushions, pleasing industrial design, large AVOD, collapsible armrests, and long bed length. I can't lie flat in SQ's C - I can in the middle seat of a United 3-class 777.
This 2-4-2- whining is just that - whining. I understand if you desire privacy, and the new product certainly addresses that. Go fly BA C, with it's "privacy", and you'll be crying for UAL IPTE.
I truly do not understand the hatred for IPTE F or C.
United launched this product in 2006, and it was heralded as industry leading among it's US peers at that time, being the first lie flat of any US carrier in C (AMR/UAL had F suites in F for years before then).
A poll of FTers during integration-time even showed a near 50/50 parity preference between IPTE C and B/E Diamond seat. Remind me where the storage is in the latter seat, or in BA C for that matter. IPTE has amazing cushions, pleasing industrial design, large AVOD, collapsible armrests, and long bed length. I can't lie flat in SQ's C - I can in the middle seat of a United 3-class 777.
This 2-4-2- whining is just that - whining. I understand if you desire privacy, and the new product certainly addresses that. Go fly BA C, with it's "privacy", and you'll be crying for UAL IPTE.
I truly do not understand the hatred for IPTE F or C.
B/E Diamond may not have good storage, but the wider space in between seats meant that little items could be stashed here and there, and the less-dense configuration meant that you had more overhead space. (In the middle 2 seats I usually had the overhead to myself)
I'd prefer the Thompson Aero Vantage seats like they have on Finnair's A330s over UA's 2-4-2 configuration, and it's far behind the reverse herringbone seats that AA has and the B/E Apex seats that JL has.
IPTE F is fine. But considering the cost of UA F can go well into five digits...the soft product is seriously lacking.
Last edited by leungy18; Aug 10, 2017 at 10:01 am
#81
Join Date: Aug 2017
Programs: UA, AA, Skywards, Qantas
Posts: 35
My first post here....
I don't understand all the animosity over the OP's review. It was fair and accurate IMO. I've flown UAL a lot (since 1988) and have had both good and bad experiences (some very similar to his). Could he have mentioned that this was the old product? Yes, but probably the only flaw and in his defense UAL is advertising the old product as "Polaris".
FWIW I would rather fly Emirates coach to Dubai (I'm based in IAD) over the old United business product- much cheaper, a generous 34 inch stretch, usually an empty next to me and food and service that blows UAL off the planet. Not to mention Skywards miles are worth a lot more IMO.
Finally, I would have sent the lamb back. It's one of my favorite dishes on UAL but what he was served was an undercooked horror. Reminds me of a first class UAL flight to Tokyo- supermarket sushi and no wasabi or soy sauce. I actually got sick. But it could have been the fish.
I don't understand all the animosity over the OP's review. It was fair and accurate IMO. I've flown UAL a lot (since 1988) and have had both good and bad experiences (some very similar to his). Could he have mentioned that this was the old product? Yes, but probably the only flaw and in his defense UAL is advertising the old product as "Polaris".
FWIW I would rather fly Emirates coach to Dubai (I'm based in IAD) over the old United business product- much cheaper, a generous 34 inch stretch, usually an empty next to me and food and service that blows UAL off the planet. Not to mention Skywards miles are worth a lot more IMO.
Finally, I would have sent the lamb back. It's one of my favorite dishes on UAL but what he was served was an undercooked horror. Reminds me of a first class UAL flight to Tokyo- supermarket sushi and no wasabi or soy sauce. I actually got sick. But it could have been the fish.
Last edited by cairns; Aug 10, 2017 at 10:31 am
#82
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Francisco/Tel Aviv/YYZ
Programs: CO 1K-MM
Posts: 10,762
My first post here....
I don't understand all the animosity over the OP's review. It was fair and accurate IMO. I've flown UAL a lot (since 1988) and have had both good and bad experiences (some very similar to his). Could he have mentioned that this was the old product? Yes, but probably the only flaw and in his defense UAL is advertising the old product as "Polaris".
FWIW I would rather fly Emirates coach to Dubai over the old United business product- a generous 34 inch stretch, usually an empty next to me and food and service that blows UAL off the planet. Not to mention Skywards miles are worth a lot more IMO.
Finally, I would have sent the lamb back. It's one of my favorite dishes on UAL but what he was served was an undercooked horror.
I don't understand all the animosity over the OP's review. It was fair and accurate IMO. I've flown UAL a lot (since 1988) and have had both good and bad experiences (some very similar to his). Could he have mentioned that this was the old product? Yes, but probably the only flaw and in his defense UAL is advertising the old product as "Polaris".
FWIW I would rather fly Emirates coach to Dubai over the old United business product- a generous 34 inch stretch, usually an empty next to me and food and service that blows UAL off the planet. Not to mention Skywards miles are worth a lot more IMO.
Finally, I would have sent the lamb back. It's one of my favorite dishes on UAL but what he was served was an undercooked horror.
its all friggin rewarmed airplane food, in Y or C, and even in F. Sure, they plate it nicer, but GMAB.
#83
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2013
Programs: DYKWIA, But I'm a "Diamond Guest" UA 1K/2MM
Posts: 2,251
As someone who flies a lot, I can attest that the review isn't that far off the "usual" experience. I've had ~20 flights on United flat seats this year. I can't remember a single time when the seat was both clean and fully functional.
#84
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Location independent
Programs: AA PlatPro, Asiana Diamond, IHG Diamond, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 287
And that's the reason that I was selected for the LH/UA reviews - and the reason I didn't do the AA/BA reviews. We wanted to have a fresh look at each product. So, this particular set of reviews was meant more as a semi-blind taste test. I knew about the 8-wide going in and - as they say - my body was ready. I was actually at piece with that part... it was the rest of the hard and soft product failings that really shaped my opinion.
*In about 10 hours, I'm continuing a ticket I started 39 days ago: ATL-EWR-LFW-ADD-CPT-JNB-HKG-KIX,NGO-GUM-ROP-SPN.
Last edited by FlyerJT; Aug 10, 2017 at 10:21 am Reason: No edits to content... just not sure how that thumbs down got at the header
#85
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,324
was is the key word. It was industry-leading back when I was in 1st grade and Dennis Hastert was still Speaker of the House and the iPhone didn't exist. That's ancient history.
B/E Diamond may not have good storage, but the wider space in between seats meant that little items could be stashed here and there, and the less-dense configuration meant that you had more overhead space. (In the middle 2 seats I usually had the overhead to myself)
I'd prefer the Thompson Aero Vantage seats like they have on Finnair's A330s over UA's 2-4-2 configuration, and it's far behind the reverse herringbone seats that AA has and the B/E Apex seats that JL has.
IPTE F is fine. But considering the cost of UA F can go well into five digits...the soft product is seriously lacking.
B/E Diamond may not have good storage, but the wider space in between seats meant that little items could be stashed here and there, and the less-dense configuration meant that you had more overhead space. (In the middle 2 seats I usually had the overhead to myself)
I'd prefer the Thompson Aero Vantage seats like they have on Finnair's A330s over UA's 2-4-2 configuration, and it's far behind the reverse herringbone seats that AA has and the B/E Apex seats that JL has.
IPTE F is fine. But considering the cost of UA F can go well into five digits...the soft product is seriously lacking.
IPTE was world class up until the time of the merger. Regrettably, the 777s took forever to re-configure. However IPTE on the 3-class 767s, and 747s is still entirely competitive, IMO. It's the 777, with the narrower fuselage, where the middle two seats are too close together.
Recall how long AMR was rolling around with their angled lie flat NGBC while UAL went lie flat - literally 5-7 years. They have leap frogged UAL in some respects today but lets not forget the years where IPTE was actually the benchmark, as strange as that my sound today.
Now that they are rolling out Polaris, they are rolling out a high-density J, which we will see if it truly isn't replaced 3 years from now with a different seat. The loss of F is going to hurt, especially GS, so I'm sure UA is monitoring that closely.
#86
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Orange County, CA
Programs: Alaska FF
Posts: 302
Recall how long AMR was rolling around with their angled lie flat NGBC while UAL went lie flat - literally 5-7 years. They have leap frogged UAL in some respects today but lets not forget the years where IPTE was actually the benchmark, as strange as that my sound today.
#87
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Location independent
Programs: AA PlatPro, Asiana Diamond, IHG Diamond, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 287
You have flown 45 carriers, and that certainly is an accomplishment. I congratulate you on that.
With all due respect, perhaps you should attempt to fly once again on United in a 3-class 747 or 777 in C before making such dramatic proclamations and conclusions. You had a bad flight. I just had one in Delta business, my first time on their old 777s. That doesn't mean I go all "Nagoya" on Delta (though I did go there on UA in 2004 ).
With all due respect, perhaps you should attempt to fly once again on United in a 3-class 747 or 777 in C before making such dramatic proclamations and conclusions. You had a bad flight. I just had one in Delta business, my first time on their old 777s. That doesn't mean I go all "Nagoya" on Delta (though I did go there on UA in 2004 ).
I'm sure that many of the UA flyers in here have had quite pleasant experiences with UA (even on the 8-wide 772), where the FAs were dreamy and the chocolate fountain flowed on the ice cream cart and into glass bowls. Cool. Keep flying UA's 772. From the discussions here, it seems like my experience was a perfect storm of issues - that you have experienced from time to time - coming together with a lousy neighbor to make this a terrible experience for me.
And, unfortunately, airlines only get one shot. As much as I might like it, I can't fly back and forth on a product again and again to get the full scope of what an average experience might be like.
#88
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: New England
Programs: American Gold, Marriott Gold, Hilton Silver
Posts: 5,638
I gave up on TPG some time ago:
* Too much DYKWIA
* Too much feel-sorry-for-me attitude
* Too many first world problems
* Too much obligatory snark
* Too much whine with the cheezy
Effective for cutting through the internet travel blogger din I guess (and harvesting the ignorance of the casual traveler) but not much content wise for anyone with their own travel acumen. As for other airlines Y being preferred to UA J? Pick my description of that from the list above.
And FWIW check my posting history as I am not a UA loyalist or apologist.
SL
* Too much DYKWIA
* Too much feel-sorry-for-me attitude
* Too many first world problems
* Too much obligatory snark
* Too much whine with the cheezy
Effective for cutting through the internet travel blogger din I guess (and harvesting the ignorance of the casual traveler) but not much content wise for anyone with their own travel acumen. As for other airlines Y being preferred to UA J? Pick my description of that from the list above.
And FWIW check my posting history as I am not a UA loyalist or apologist.
SL
*Too much credit card shilling under the guise of providing "informative" travel advice, sold with clickbait titles and vapid "content."
#89
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: LHR, HKG
Programs: gate lice
Posts: 315
You're right - UAL should have rolled out a new product 3 years ago. But Smisek was a penny pincher engaged in multi-billion dollar stock buy backs, not large cap-ex product enhancements. Apparently he wasn't happy with how much the then unnamed Polaris product was going to cost, and it's questionable if his team was still at the helm if we'd even have a new United Business "Polaris" brand and/or soft-product enhancements.
IPTE was world class up until the time of the merger. Regrettably, the 777s took forever to re-configure. However IPTE on the 3-class 767s, and 747s is still entirely competitive, IMO. It's the 777, with the narrower fuselage, where the middle two seats are too close together.
...
Now that they are rolling out Polaris, they are rolling out a high-density J, which we will see if it truly isn't replaced 3 years from now with a different seat. The loss of F is going to hurt, especially GS, so I'm sure UA is monitoring that closely.
IPTE was world class up until the time of the merger. Regrettably, the 777s took forever to re-configure. However IPTE on the 3-class 767s, and 747s is still entirely competitive, IMO. It's the 777, with the narrower fuselage, where the middle two seats are too close together.
...
Now that they are rolling out Polaris, they are rolling out a high-density J, which we will see if it truly isn't replaced 3 years from now with a different seat. The loss of F is going to hurt, especially GS, so I'm sure UA is monitoring that closely.
Since the 767 is flown on shorter routes anyway, the IPTE is not that bad on a daytime flight, but still unacceptable for a red-eye IMO.
I think the longest route served with the IPTE seats is HKG-ORD on a 777. 16 hours. That's just ridiculous. How do you sleep with so many strangers in such close proximity?
The 747s are going to be gone soon anyway. Never tried the upper deck, sadly.
#90
Join Date: Nov 2014
Programs: UA 2MM
Posts: 1,679
Yep. Although I've flown 45 carriers, this was my first time in United international business class. So, how would I know about the meal ordering hierarchy? This review is meant to be a guide for those who aren't UA 1Ks and don't know the ins-and-outs of the airline - not 1Ks that clearly already know not only the product but the nuances UA's meal service.