"The Points Guy" takes the mickey out of United & Polaris
Aug 10, 2017, 5:58 am
#46
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,324
Good morning Nagoya! I wonder if I've got any comments on my United flight review...
Oh gawd.
As I responded to you on Twitter, I'm 100% confident of this statement (even months after I originally wrote it). I've flown almost 200k in economy since the beginning of 2016. Here's my flight log I know what I'm saying when I'd rather have flown JL, CX, and yes, even LH economy rather than this product.
The flight was sold - and marketed all over - as "Polaris". I'm only using the terminology that UA is using for this flight.
LOLZ. 147k so far in 2017 and 135k in 2016. 45 airlines in the past decade.
Not sure of your LH experience, but I quite enjoyed mine. How about free champagne in Y on the upper deck of the A380?
I did ask for the purser. I was told she was unavailable until I finally got the chance to talk with her just before landing. She confirmed that chewing tobacco wasn't allowed, but by that time it was a moot point. I'd finally been cleared to move (to take someone else's seat).
Did you see the photos of the food I got? Are you a fan of undercooked, fatty meat or something? If so, no judgement
I've flown 200k miles in economy in the past ~1.5 years. When I say that I'd rather fly economy on certain carriers than experience this flight again, I mean it. This experience was much worse than any of the economy long-haul flights I've had on JAL (787 2-4-2 arrangement FTW), CX or my long-haul experience on LH.
Fair enough. I will accept this as a mistake of mine for not raving on about the potential of a new hard product coming to this route (eventually). That said, this is the experience that UA is selling on this route at this time.
Oh gawd.
As I responded to you on Twitter, I'm 100% confident of this statement (even months after I originally wrote it). I've flown almost 200k in economy since the beginning of 2016. Here's my flight log I know what I'm saying when I'd rather have flown JL, CX, and yes, even LH economy rather than this product.
The flight was sold - and marketed all over - as "Polaris". I'm only using the terminology that UA is using for this flight.
LOLZ. 147k so far in 2017 and 135k in 2016. 45 airlines in the past decade.
Not sure of your LH experience, but I quite enjoyed mine. How about free champagne in Y on the upper deck of the A380?
I did ask for the purser. I was told she was unavailable until I finally got the chance to talk with her just before landing. She confirmed that chewing tobacco wasn't allowed, but by that time it was a moot point. I'd finally been cleared to move (to take someone else's seat).
Did you see the photos of the food I got? Are you a fan of undercooked, fatty meat or something? If so, no judgement
I've flown 200k miles in economy in the past ~1.5 years. When I say that I'd rather fly economy on certain carriers than experience this flight again, I mean it. This experience was much worse than any of the economy long-haul flights I've had on JAL (787 2-4-2 arrangement FTW), CX or my long-haul experience on LH.
Fair enough. I will accept this as a mistake of mine for not raving on about the potential of a new hard product coming to this route (eventually). That said, this is the experience that UA is selling on this route at this time.
Nothing you said above makes this any better, and in fact, the defensive posture makes it worse.
You had a broken footrest, a meal you didn't like, had to have your IFE restarted, and didn't like your seat mate. Ok. And? Edit: It looks like you didn't get an Ursa bear.
Alas, United's 3-class IPTE C product is still a great way to fly - long beds, comfortable cushions, and a nice video screen size.
This stuff about preferring coach over it is ridiculous and a failed attempt at click bait. Like I said before, it's back firing before our eyes.
Last edited by tuolumne; Aug 10, 2017 at 7:56 am
Aug 10, 2017, 6:16 am
#47
Join Date: Sep 2009
Programs: UA GS>1K>Nothing; DL DM 2MM; AS 75K>Nothing>MVP
Posts: 9,341
Honestly people. The TPG report on UA is spot on in substance.
1. UA's soft product is about the worst there is.
2. Their new hard product by the time it gets fully rolled out will be at best marginally competitive.
1. UA's soft product is about the worst there is.
2. Their new hard product by the time it gets fully rolled out will be at best marginally competitive.
Aug 10, 2017, 6:38 am
#48
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: BOS
Programs: 1MM, UA 1k
Posts: 529
I've had at least half a dozen United business class experiences where I definitely would have been happier in Economy on another airline -- Lufthansa, SQ, even Air Asia or EasyJet.
I have NEVER - NOT ONCE - had staff on any of these airlines say deliberately degrading or insulting things to me as I have on United. You guys can get all gushy about the seats on United. United Business Class seats are definitely better than Economy seat elsewhere -- as they should be at 5X the price. But for many of us, the treatment matters more than the hardware.
And the treatment frankly sucks. It's little things like not putting the tray on your tray table or making you pick it up, because they are too lazy to bend a few degrees and get it. The TPG author clearly clued into this right away. But what lurks behind that is much bigger and worse things. --and the underlying antagonistic attitude toward customers that pervades United. We saw that with Dr. Dao, the poor old guy in Houston, and I see it about once a month when I end up on United.
Can you imagine as a member of a minority to have somebody call you "little boy?" Think about that. I've only had that experience on United.
I have NEVER - NOT ONCE - had staff on any of these airlines say deliberately degrading or insulting things to me as I have on United. You guys can get all gushy about the seats on United. United Business Class seats are definitely better than Economy seat elsewhere -- as they should be at 5X the price. But for many of us, the treatment matters more than the hardware.
And the treatment frankly sucks. It's little things like not putting the tray on your tray table or making you pick it up, because they are too lazy to bend a few degrees and get it. The TPG author clearly clued into this right away. But what lurks behind that is much bigger and worse things. --and the underlying antagonistic attitude toward customers that pervades United. We saw that with Dr. Dao, the poor old guy in Houston, and I see it about once a month when I end up on United.
Can you imagine as a member of a minority to have somebody call you "little boy?" Think about that. I've only had that experience on United.
Aug 10, 2017, 6:47 am
#49
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Eurozone
Programs: LH SEN, HH Gold
Posts: 3,002
The truths are true, but that doesn't make the non-truths ("worse than LH Y") into truths.
Aug 10, 2017, 7:03 am
#50
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: New Jersey
Programs: UA MM 1K, AA MM Gold, Marriott LT Platinum
Posts: 3,235
Agree with everyone's comments that the worst J beats any Y.
The only time I've come close was an AI flight from DEL-FRA on a new 788. I had 11ABC (bulkhead) all to myself. Between the curtain between me and J, and the curtain to the galley next to me (and very quiet, attentive crew), it was like having a private cabin all to myself, with no other passengers in my line of sight unless I turned all the way around. It was a daytime flight, so no sleep necessary. Of course, J on that flight (2-2-2) would have been better, but I'm trying to think of a Y experience superior to the UA 2-4-2 middle seat experience.
The only time I've come close was an AI flight from DEL-FRA on a new 788. I had 11ABC (bulkhead) all to myself. Between the curtain between me and J, and the curtain to the galley next to me (and very quiet, attentive crew), it was like having a private cabin all to myself, with no other passengers in my line of sight unless I turned all the way around. It was a daytime flight, so no sleep necessary. Of course, J on that flight (2-2-2) would have been better, but I'm trying to think of a Y experience superior to the UA 2-4-2 middle seat experience.
Aug 10, 2017, 7:17 am
#51
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Francisco/Tel Aviv/YYZ
Programs: CO 1K-MM
Posts: 10,762
ugh.
First of all, I'd take IPTE C over Y on any airline, any day. In fact, I find the seat quite comfortable and in some cases more comfortable than the PMCO lieflats. Sure, you can take issue with the horizontal density, but you've got space and a comfy bed.
Personally, I like my lamb rare, and lamb chops are fatty so I think that might have been spot on for me.
First of all, I'd take IPTE C over Y on any airline, any day. In fact, I find the seat quite comfortable and in some cases more comfortable than the PMCO lieflats. Sure, you can take issue with the horizontal density, but you've got space and a comfy bed.
Personally, I like my lamb rare, and lamb chops are fatty so I think that might have been spot on for me.
Aug 10, 2017, 7:23 am
#52
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2013
Programs: DYKWIA, But I'm a "Diamond Guest" UA 1K/2MM
Posts: 2,257
A lie-flat seat is just so wonderful, that no degree of poor service, malfunctions, and bad food would make you wish you were sitting upright (and being treated decently) elsewhere?
Aug 10, 2017, 7:32 am
#53
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: CPH
Programs: UAMP S, TK M&S E (*G), Marriott LTP, IHG P, SK EBG
Posts: 11,089
Do you really think it's impossible for someone's overall J experience to be inferior to a good Y experience?
A lie-flat seat is just so wonderful, that no degree of poor service, malfunctions, and bad food would make you wish you were sitting upright (and being treated decently) elsewhere?
A lie-flat seat is just so wonderful, that no degree of poor service, malfunctions, and bad food would make you wish you were sitting upright (and being treated decently) elsewhere?
Aug 10, 2017, 7:44 am
#54
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: HaMerkaz/Exit 145
Programs: UA, LY, BA, AA
Posts: 13,167
Do you really think it's impossible for someone's overall J experience to be inferior to a good Y experience?
A lie-flat seat is just so wonderful, that no degree of poor service, malfunctions, and bad food would make you wish you were sitting upright (and being treated decently) elsewhere?
A lie-flat seat is just so wonderful, that no degree of poor service, malfunctions, and bad food would make you wish you were sitting upright (and being treated decently) elsewhere?
Aug 10, 2017, 8:00 am
#55
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: New York, NY
Programs: UA, AA, DL, Hertz, Avis, National, Hyatt, Hilton, SPG, Marriott
Posts: 9,450
Well, if I were burning most of my precious CC signup bonus on a UA flight in J, and that was the experience, I'd be bummed too! Thus, I can empathize with the notion that perhaps 2x flights in a quality Y product might be better value than one subpar flight in UA J.
Of course, the author doesn't couch it that way, so we can only take the piece at face value.
IMO, the key takeaway is that TPG primarily caters to a mass-market crowd, most of whom (I'd wager) are not frequent travelers in the same vein as many of us on FT. Their mileage earning is driven mostly by signup bonuses - though the churn game has jumped the shark - and CC spend. I'm not looking to TPG for insightful content relevant to business travelers, because the people who generate it simply don't play in that sandbox.
It's not a knock, as I think TPG does an exceptional job at its core competency. But as always, one must consider the source.
Of course, the author doesn't couch it that way, so we can only take the piece at face value.
IMO, the key takeaway is that TPG primarily caters to a mass-market crowd, most of whom (I'd wager) are not frequent travelers in the same vein as many of us on FT. Their mileage earning is driven mostly by signup bonuses - though the churn game has jumped the shark - and CC spend. I'm not looking to TPG for insightful content relevant to business travelers, because the people who generate it simply don't play in that sandbox.
It's not a knock, as I think TPG does an exceptional job at its core competency. But as always, one must consider the source.
Aug 10, 2017, 8:02 am
#56
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Austin, TX
Programs: CoUniHound 1K 1MM, AA EXP 2MM, DL Plat, Marriott Lifetime Titanium
Posts: 1,625
Aug 10, 2017, 8:05 am
#57
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Location independent
Programs: AA PlatPro, Asiana Diamond, IHG Diamond, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 287
Also, note that I mention JL and CX in addition to LH. And, in case it helps, my experience on LH Y is upper deck on the A380, complete with a window-side storage bin, champagne, decent food, excellent service and working IFE and power. So, it was a pretty spectacular Y experience.
Aug 10, 2017, 8:06 am
#58
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,324
Do you really think it's impossible for someone's overall J experience to be inferior to a good Y experience?
A lie-flat seat is just so wonderful, that no degree of poor service, malfunctions, and bad food would make you wish you were sitting upright (and being treated decently) elsewhere?
A lie-flat seat is just so wonderful, that no degree of poor service, malfunctions, and bad food would make you wish you were sitting upright (and being treated decently) elsewhere?
The "reviewer" said they liked the meal outside of their 1) rare lamb, and 2) ginger ice cream (both of which I find quite good, and I like my lamb rare).
They fly a lot, yet have no idea of United's food ordering hierarchy. Uh huh. And, please enlighten me, but it looks like they got their first choice. No mention of cooling memory pillow, 2 huge other pillows, mattress pads, Sax duvet and day blanket - give me a break.
They already sinking ship then fully sunk when they went for the cheap line that LH Y > UA C.
This review is a disaster for TPG this morning. The response in this thread from the reviewer was astounding to read.
Aug 10, 2017, 8:09 am
#59
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2013
Programs: DYKWIA, But I'm a "Diamond Guest" UA 1K/2MM
Posts: 2,257
I, for one, am with him. I have definitely had United J experiences that made me wish I were anywhere else. And I have had nothing but pleasant experiences in LH (and LX and OS) Y.
Aug 10, 2017, 8:11 am
#60
Join Date: Jul 2015
Programs: UA Platinum, Starbucks Gold
Posts: 873
JT, it sounds like you would prefer Y on other carriers to this particular experience because of the seat defects mainly. A better question is would you pick Y on other carriers over a properly operating UA J seat?
Your broken seat was assuredly an anomaly.
Your broken seat was assuredly an anomaly.