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UA Flex-Schedule Program,bidding for voluntary bumps & sometimes confirmed rebookings

UA Flex-Schedule Program,bidding for voluntary bumps & sometimes confirmed rebookings

Old Jul 13, 2017, 11:08 am
  #76  
 
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I volunteer almost every time where I have any flexibility, as I do a fair amount of personal travel and love being able to use vouchers. However, I very seldom actually get bumped, as they end up with no-shows, etc.

This week I volunteered for VDB on a flight and they thought they would need me. However, they had 3 no-shows, and I ended up being the last one on the plane. No harm done, but I would have liked getting the voucher, and my travel plans were flexible.

If this system had been in place, I probably would have received a voucher and taken an alternate flight, and been happy with it.
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Old Jul 13, 2017, 11:24 am
  #77  
 
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Originally Posted by fuzz
My brother is the CEO of Volantio, whose technology is used. So happy for his company, as I have seen how hard they've been working on this!

And as an IT Wonk, the part that I find interesting and would love to know more about is how the integration works? I'd imagine this needs to have some good hooks into the RM/Inventory Management systems in order to make the predictive calls on which customers and which flights are the best candidates for an offer.

Are these system standardized or has each airline rolled their own over the years? I know that there are 2 or 3 Reservation Systems (Sabre and others), but what about the back-ends that deal with this stuff. If standard APIs exist, that makes this much easier for the vendor, but if they have to do an integration exercise with each and every client, that tends to be expensive as additional development effort instead of an install and go type.
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Old Jul 13, 2017, 11:34 am
  #78  
 
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Any info on rollout timing for this? Apologies if I'd missed it or if it's immediate, but didn't see when this would be active.
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Old Jul 13, 2017, 12:25 pm
  #79  
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Originally Posted by drowelf
And as an IT Wonk, the part that I find interesting and would love to know more about is how the integration works? I'd imagine this needs to have some good hooks into the RM/Inventory Management systems in order to make the predictive calls on which customers and which flights are the best candidates for an offer.

Are these system standardized or has each airline rolled their own over the years? I know that there are 2 or 3 Reservation Systems (Sabre and others), but what about the back-ends that deal with this stuff. If standard APIs exist, that makes this much easier for the vendor, but if they have to do an integration exercise with each and every client, that tends to be expensive as additional development effort instead of an install and go type.
No experience, but their website prominently claims

Fast and easy implementation

Integrate in days not months, with minimal work required from your technical teams.
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Old Jul 13, 2017, 12:42 pm
  #80  
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Originally Posted by gcashin
Any info on rollout timing for this? Apologies if I'd missed it or if it's immediate, but didn't see when this would be active.
More or less immediate for a trial period running a few weeks/months.

Originally Posted by drowelf
I'd imagine this needs to have some good hooks into the RM/Inventory Management systems in order to make the predictive calls on which customers and which flights are the best candidates for an offer.
Yup.
Originally Posted by drowelf
Are these system standardized or has each airline rolled their own over the years? I know that there are 2 or 3 Reservation Systems (Sabre and others), but what about the back-ends that deal with this stuff.
There are a few major platforms and some smaller players as well. Most of the systems have APIs exposed in one form or another so this sort of thing is possible. You're not coding directly against the PSS or having to rebuild every time but there are differences in the systems you have to integrate with depending on the airline.
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Old Jul 13, 2017, 1:13 pm
  #81  
 
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From an economic perspective, I wondered why this idea took so long to implement. If United could sell my seat for $1,000 (that I paid $200 and was flexible with my flight), and "share" some of the increased revenue, it seems like this would be a "no brainer".

In fact, I would go even further to identify and maximize the economic utility of other areas. For example, an upgrade. If I've been upgraded to first (or business) class, would I will willing to "sell my seat" to go back to coach? Of course, there are numerous factors and everyone is different, but at some price, this would be attractive.

If another passenger was willing to pay $1,000 to upgrade to business class, and I was willing to take $500 to go back to coach, wouldn't we both benefit?

For those passengers who have upgraded, perhaps there can be a field where they would be willing to volunteer to be downgraded to coach (and how much it would take to do so)? This would be especially helpful during irrops where First class passengers would need to be re-accommodated.
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Old Jul 13, 2017, 1:25 pm
  #82  
 
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I haven't seen this discussed, but this is going to go the way of United not even having to offer a VDB. As the article says, Flying A to B to C, but (A-b or b-c) oversold? Offer them A-C for free.

No VDB, and customer is happy. I also prefer talking with people as you can get "creative" in options. I have no problems flying some weird route if need be, or to a nearby city, if that's a better option, which it sounds like won't be an option here. I also bet it wouldn't be let you get rebooked in Y or F/J/A.
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Old Jul 13, 2017, 1:35 pm
  #83  
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For a long, long time, I've thought (and posted here...somewhere) about this exact concept. I think it's a great idea - a legitimate enhancement that can make every stakeholder happy if it is executed well.

The "if it is executed well" bit is the part that concerns me. But you gotta start somewhere... The good news is that United (and other airlines) will start hearing feedback pretty quickly. If a bunch of F or E+ volunteers are ending up in E- seats, it'll eventually make the news. People will be paying attention, especially now that these kinds of news stories generate click rates way beyond what an avgeek story would have done 5 years ago. Thus, the product will have to get better over time.

I'd expect that 5 years from now, every airline app in your pocket will have some variant of this baked into it.
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Old Jul 13, 2017, 1:40 pm
  #84  
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Originally Posted by BThumme
I haven't seen this discussed, but this is going to go the way of United not even having to offer a VDB. As the article says, Flying A to B to C, but (A-b or b-c) oversold? Offer them A-C for free.
Honestly, the more I think about this, the less I understand it. UA already has the right to reroute people prior to the day of flight. If they have flight options that work within a narrow window, they can (and do) just move people. In this scenario, most* travelers would be very happy to get the nonstop.

Originally Posted by pinniped
For a long, long time, I've thought (and posted here...somewhere) about this exact concept. I think it's a great idea - a legitimate enhancement that can make every stakeholder happy if it is executed well.
It's unlikely to make me very happy, as I normally find myself at/near the top of the volunteer list, in part because many people don't have the same flexibility day-of-travel that they might have with 4 days' notice.

*'most' and 'most FTers' are two distinct groups.
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Old Jul 13, 2017, 2:01 pm
  #85  
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Originally Posted by jsloan
It's unlikely to make me very happy, as I normally find myself at/near the top of the volunteer list, in part because many people don't have the same flexibility day-of-travel that they might have with 4 days' notice.
I guess the devil will be in the details and execution.

On a gate VDB, you obviously have to fly *later*, and often a lot later...thus leading to higher VDB amounts that you presumably enjoy today.

With this, it appears they're rolling it out with low dollar amounts to start, which tells me they're hoping to get some minor movement here and there...people flying 1-2 hours earlier, for example. You might get fewer $1000 bumps, but a lot more $200 bumps. And you could plan for them, including flying earlier (instead of always later), meaning you could be better off in the long run. And you'd lose less valuable time actually waiting in airports for later flights.

Plus, the low cap in the tool means they're still going to have to resolve *some* VDBs with bigger vouchers at the airport. Especially if it's a route that doesn't have flights every 1-2 hours.
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Old Jul 13, 2017, 2:11 pm
  #86  
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Originally Posted by PBAudit
From an economic perspective, I wondered why this idea took so long to implement.
The tech to make it happen, especially to integrate the 3rd party systems - was way more expensive and harder to build. Plus, when average load factors were in the low 70s oversales were less common and less troublesome when they are in the mid-80s.
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Old Jul 13, 2017, 2:30 pm
  #87  
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Before loads approached 100%, UA used to guarantee GS & 1K paying full Y a seat up to T-24. Practically speaking, UA would overbook by one more on most flights at any time for full Y. This barely moved the IDB needle and even if UA had to shell out IDB once in a great while, it more than made up for that payout with the happy HVC.

The technology here is not quite so easy and while the concept has made sense for a long time, the execution has not been easy.

Using real people to call and engage in negotiations is time-consuming and expensive. This is not people intensive, the deal is the deal, and if UA has satisfied its needs by the time you respond, well you're too late.

Nothing will ever totally replace the VDB at the gate, but this, if it is properly executed, will go a long way. A side benefit is that it contributes to an ontime push and fewer frustrating waits on arriving aircraft with too many aircraft stuck at the gate.
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Old Jul 13, 2017, 3:04 pm
  #88  
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Originally Posted by PBAudit
From an economic perspective, I wondered why this idea took so long to implement. If United could sell my seat for $1,000 (that I paid $200 and was flexible with my flight), and "share" some of the increased revenue, it seems like this would be a "no brainer".

In fact, I would go even further to identify and maximize the economic utility of other areas. For example, an upgrade. If I've been upgraded to first (or business) class, would I will willing to "sell my seat" to go back to coach? Of course, there are numerous factors and everyone is different, but at some price, this would be attractive.

If another passenger was willing to pay $1,000 to upgrade to business class, and I was willing to take $500 to go back to coach, wouldn't we both benefit?

For those passengers who have upgraded, perhaps there can be a field where they would be willing to volunteer to be downgraded to coach (and how much it would take to do so)? This would be especially helpful during irrops where First class passengers would need to be re-accommodated.
UA could always sell some expensive tickets on flights that are already full and at worst do IDBs for much less that the price of the new tickets that were sold.

I wonder whether this system tries to select people for VDBs who are least likely to use the vouchers, effectively increasing the breakage rate. Maybe UA is getting too many eager volunteers since an aftermath of the Dr Dao incident greatly raised the limits that GAs and supervisors can offer.
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Old Jul 13, 2017, 3:30 pm
  #89  
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist
Maybe UA is getting too many eager volunteers since an aftermath of the Dr Dao incident greatly raised the limits that GAs and supervisors can offer.
Doesn't matter how many people volunteer if you aren't overbooking as much. :-:

Also, the higher limit only matters if no one accepts the lower numbers. I doubt the company is going to be paying out massive VDBs any time soon.

Originally Posted by MSPeconomist
UA could always sell some expensive tickets on flights that are already full and at worst do IDBs for much less that the price of the new tickets that were sold.
Sure, but IDB makes passengers mad. If they can get the same effect here - "cheap" pax moved and HVF seat sold - while also making the cheap pax think it is a win and paying less than IDB or VDB whey wouldn't they do that?? Especially if another vendor builds the tech and the costs to the airline are relatively small to acquire/implement.
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Old Jul 13, 2017, 3:36 pm
  #90  
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As I understand it, the $10K cap for VDB would be offered for a bump off a TPAC paid F.

The physical aspect of the Dao incident is simply avoided by not boarding people until there is a seat for them. With required check-in for deadhead crew, the only place I see a problem are misconnecting UM where the next onward is the last flight of the day and passengers who are denied entry on international flights where the locals won't release the aircraft until the individual is boarded.

Had Dao physically been denied boarding, e.g., not permitted to enter the aircraft, this would have turned out differently.
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