United Airlines apologizes after giving away toddler's seat
Jul 6, 2017, 12:24 pm
#151
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: BOS
Programs: 1MM, UA 1k
Posts: 529
one last link, with an interesting line in it...bolded is mine
https://www.boston.com/news/national...ight-to-boston
https://www.boston.com/news/national...ight-to-boston
HONOLULU (AP) — United Airlines has apologized to a Hawaii teacher who was forced to hold her 2-year-old son on her lap for three-and-a-half hours after an employee gave the toddler’s purchased seat to a standby passenger.
Hawaii News Now reports that Shirley Yamauchi says she paid almost $1,000 each for two tickets because children over the age of 2 are required to have their own seat.
She boarded the Boston-bound plane in Houston with her son, Taizo, and they took their seats.
The Kapolei Middle School teacher says a flight attendant came to check if Taizo was present before a standby passenger showed up with a ticket with the toddler’s seat number.
Yamauchi says she told a flight attendant about the problem, but the woman just shrugged, said the flight was full, and walked away.
The company issued an apology five days after the incident.
Hawaii News Now reports that Shirley Yamauchi says she paid almost $1,000 each for two tickets because children over the age of 2 are required to have their own seat.
She boarded the Boston-bound plane in Houston with her son, Taizo, and they took their seats.
The Kapolei Middle School teacher says a flight attendant came to check if Taizo was present before a standby passenger showed up with a ticket with the toddler’s seat number.
Yamauchi says she told a flight attendant about the problem, but the woman just shrugged, said the flight was full, and walked away.
The company issued an apology five days after the incident.
Jul 6, 2017, 12:26 pm
#152
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 238
My question is it appears she didn't bring this to the media's attention until after she got back home to Honolulu, so how did the boy get home since once he "no-showed" in Houston the rest of his flights would have been cancelled? Unless they were on 2 one-ways?
Jul 6, 2017, 12:27 pm
#153
Join Date: Feb 2006
Programs: UA, Starwood, Priority Club, Hertz, Starbucks Gold Card
Posts: 3,952
This is not an isolated mistake, but an endemic problem within UA's culture.
Earlier this year, UA IDBed an unaccompanied minor on the last flight of the day, a violation of its own policy.
There is an attitude within UA that treats general (non-elite) pax like second class citizens. Some CS agents almost take glee at any opportunity to power trip over the unwashed. This has been going on for a long time. We've all seen it, even if we are "elite" FF and didn't experience any of it firsthand. Thanks to social/electronic media, this dark aspect of UA is finally being brought to light.
Earlier this year, UA IDBed an unaccompanied minor on the last flight of the day, a violation of its own policy.
There is an attitude within UA that treats general (non-elite) pax like second class citizens. Some CS agents almost take glee at any opportunity to power trip over the unwashed. This has been going on for a long time. We've all seen it, even if we are "elite" FF and didn't experience any of it firsthand. Thanks to social/electronic media, this dark aspect of UA is finally being brought to light.
Jul 6, 2017, 12:30 pm
#154
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 30
This is my opinion mind you, but I don't believe it was a "no-show." She said they scanned both boarding passes correctly. UAL is claiming there was a mistake there in scanning them, but I honestly believe it has nothing to do with the scanning of the BPs. That's their claim, but I wholeheartedly believe they scanned them properly. It was what was done afterwards that was the issue. They didn't look further into his age, or that he should be in his own seat, and not a lap child.
Jul 6, 2017, 12:33 pm
#155
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Houston
Programs: United 1K, Marriott Lifetime Platinum; Hyatt Diamond/GLOB
Posts: 738
Maybe a GA taking the boarding pass of someone carrying a child during pre-boarding assumes it's a lap child and only looks for one BP (bad decision, but possible). It's not unusual for inexperienced flyers to hand a GA both their current flight and connecting BP's, so that the GA just scans the one for that flight.Just thinking of other possible considerations.
Jul 6, 2017, 12:35 pm
#156
Join Date: May 2012
Location: HNL
Programs: AA PP 1.8MM, PC Spire, Hertz 5*, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 1,030
This is my opinion mind you, but I don't believe it was a "no-show." She said they scanned both boarding passes correctly. UAL is claiming there was a mistake there in scanning them, but I honestly believe it has nothing to do with the scanning of the BPs. That's their claim, but I wholeheartedly believe they scanned them properly. It was what was done afterwards that was the issue. They didn't look further into his age, or that he should be in his own seat, and not a lap child.
She waited until getting home before bringing this all up so as not to disturb the itinerary.
Jul 6, 2017, 12:41 pm
#158
Join Date: May 2012
Location: HNL
Programs: AA PP 1.8MM, PC Spire, Hertz 5*, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 1,030
How is not an honest mistake? In order for it to be beyond that, there has to be some knowledge or intent to break the rules and protocol. So far we have no good evidence of it. All we have is the story from one side, a side that admits making actions (also mistakes) that strongly contributed to the problem not being remedied. Two people with tickets to one seat happens from time to time. It's life. People and machines aren't perfect. There's a long list of ways one or more honest mistakes or machine errors leads to a problem such as this.
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Someone mentioned UA no longer does head counts and the numbers are done through the scanner. So the FA didn't break any procedures.
Last edited by nutwpinut; Jul 6, 2017 at 1:11 pm
Jul 6, 2017, 12:43 pm
#159
Join Date: Feb 2008
Programs: 6 year GS, now 2MM Jeff-ugee, *wood LTPlt, SkyPeso PLT
Posts: 6,526
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Jul 6, 2017 at 1:40 pm Reason: response to deleted materials removed; snarky comment removed
Jul 6, 2017, 12:46 pm
#160
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 180
The lady should definitely sue. Apology, refund and free travel voucher will not prevent this from happening again.
Money is the only way to make people do things differently. I once sued a restaurant because their food made me and several others ill. I didn't sue because I wanted quick bucks. When their attorney and my attorney worked out a settlement, the amount was a little over $30,000. My attorney took $10,000(no surprise there) and I got the rest. I endorsed the check and get the entire check to my local animal shelter.
Money is the only way to make people do things differently. I once sued a restaurant because their food made me and several others ill. I didn't sue because I wanted quick bucks. When their attorney and my attorney worked out a settlement, the amount was a little over $30,000. My attorney took $10,000(no surprise there) and I got the rest. I endorsed the check and get the entire check to my local animal shelter.
Jul 6, 2017, 12:50 pm
#161
Join Date: May 2012
Location: HNL
Programs: AA PP 1.8MM, PC Spire, Hertz 5*, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 1,030
Finally found something on FAA website.
3-3566 ACCIDENT NOTIFICATION AND MANIFEST ACCOUNTING PROCEDURES
-----------------
Someone mentioned below that UA doesn't do counts on board anymore and the numbers are done through the scanner.
3-3566 ACCIDENT NOTIFICATION AND MANIFEST ACCOUNTING PROCEDURES
Part 135 requires, for multiengine aircraft, a load manifest that includes, at the time of takeoff, the number of passengers
3) Any person provided transportation on an air carrier aircraft, who is not a crewmember assigned by the air carrier to perform duties during flight time, must be recorded as a passenger and listed.
Children (regardless of their age and whether they occupy a seat);
Someone mentioned below that UA doesn't do counts on board anymore and the numbers are done through the scanner.
Last edited by nutwpinut; Jul 6, 2017 at 1:10 pm
Jul 6, 2017, 12:51 pm
#162
Join Date: Feb 2008
Programs: 6 year GS, now 2MM Jeff-ugee, *wood LTPlt, SkyPeso PLT
Posts: 6,526
One of the previous posts and some of the articles mentioned she did bring it up after the flight landed, but they wouldn't refund the ticket because it would have cancelled the rest of the flight. At that point UA probably reinstated the ticket for her child.
She waited until getting home before bringing this all up so as not to disturb the itinerary.
She waited until getting home before bringing this all up so as not to disturb the itinerary.
Agents are simply not trained nor empowered to address issues proactively. Any thoughtful employee faced with a woman saying "hey my 27 mo had to sit on my lap because the GA/FA took my $968 seat and gave it to a stand by" should go "wait, let me get my manager right now, we want to figure out what went wrong here and figure it out." Instead, United issued a threat. Sort of like their response to their agent pushing a 72 year old man to the floor at IAH.
Jul 6, 2017, 12:53 pm
#163
Join Date: May 2012
Location: HNL
Programs: AA PP 1.8MM, PC Spire, Hertz 5*, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 1,030
For those saying this would a great way to game the system. You can't game the system this way. The crew is supposed to do a head count, including lap children. That would alleviate any "gaming" When proper protocol and rules are followed, this should never happen unless of a miscount.
How may people count? Is it only 1 or 2 FAs that count?
How may people count? Is it only 1 or 2 FAs that count?
Jul 6, 2017, 1:02 pm
#164
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: KEWR
Programs: Marriott Platinum
Posts: 794
There's a whole bunch of inaccurate information here, may I attempt to clean this up?
First off the F/As don't do head counts anymore, hasn't happened in quite a while. That information is transmitted from the gate readers. The data is sent to the F/As link devices and load planning in Chicago. Once we (the pilots) receive the final "numbers", which includes passenger counts and associated cargo weights it comes out on the printer where we input these figures in the computer for our takeoff and flight data.
When there are seat duplications the FA's can look at their link devices and see the seat numbers to direct you in the right spot. If for some reason there's an issue, they simply escalate this to the pilots. From there we contact operations and get them involved. This happens every so often and is usually associated with someone being upgraded to first class with another passenger taking the newly opened seat. (Now you know the behind the scenes what occurs when you all get that precious last minute upgrade.)
In this recent scenario it's known the error occurred at the gate reader. The boarding pass failed to scan or be get scanned...whatever. Bottom line is, inaccurate information was transmitted down the line. The FA may have looked at her link to see the name of "passengers X & Y" 23A & 23B and it incorrectly wouldn't match due to the gate reading error. The passenger obviously would not know about it and to the FA's defense, neither would she.
However it's a simple fix that didn't happen for one reason or another. F/A stating, "Ma'am may please see your boarding passes?" or the passenger saying, "Excuse me, I think we have a problem, here are my boarding passes." This is the point where I feel we don't have the full story...
Once the "seat dup" issue was discovered it should have been escalated to the pilots and operations where resolution could have quickly occurred.
Oh...and I'm a pilot for United, these are solely my opinions not the airlines' so please don't attempt to sue me or hold me responsible. I think that'll do for the disclosure
First off the F/As don't do head counts anymore, hasn't happened in quite a while. That information is transmitted from the gate readers. The data is sent to the F/As link devices and load planning in Chicago. Once we (the pilots) receive the final "numbers", which includes passenger counts and associated cargo weights it comes out on the printer where we input these figures in the computer for our takeoff and flight data.
When there are seat duplications the FA's can look at their link devices and see the seat numbers to direct you in the right spot. If for some reason there's an issue, they simply escalate this to the pilots. From there we contact operations and get them involved. This happens every so often and is usually associated with someone being upgraded to first class with another passenger taking the newly opened seat. (Now you know the behind the scenes what occurs when you all get that precious last minute upgrade.)
In this recent scenario it's known the error occurred at the gate reader. The boarding pass failed to scan or be get scanned...whatever. Bottom line is, inaccurate information was transmitted down the line. The FA may have looked at her link to see the name of "passengers X & Y" 23A & 23B and it incorrectly wouldn't match due to the gate reading error. The passenger obviously would not know about it and to the FA's defense, neither would she.
However it's a simple fix that didn't happen for one reason or another. F/A stating, "Ma'am may please see your boarding passes?" or the passenger saying, "Excuse me, I think we have a problem, here are my boarding passes." This is the point where I feel we don't have the full story...
Once the "seat dup" issue was discovered it should have been escalated to the pilots and operations where resolution could have quickly occurred.
Oh...and I'm a pilot for United, these are solely my opinions not the airlines' so please don't attempt to sue me or hold me responsible. I think that'll do for the disclosure
Jul 6, 2017, 1:08 pm
#165
Join Date: May 2012
Location: HNL
Programs: AA PP 1.8MM, PC Spire, Hertz 5*, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 1,030
There's a whole bunch of inaccurate information here, may I attempt to clean this up?
First off the F/As don't do head counts anymore, hasn't happened in quite a while. That information is transmitted from the gate readers. The data is sent to the F/As link devices and load planning in Chicago. Once we (the pilots) receive the final "numbers", which includes passenger counts and associated cargo weights it comes out on the printer where we input these figures in the computer for our takeoff and flight data.
When there are seat duplications the FA's can look at their link devices and see the seat numbers to direct you in the right spot. If for some reason there's an issue, they simply escalate this to the pilots. From there we contact operations and get them involved. This happens every so often and is usually associated with someone being upgraded to first class with another passenger taking the newly opened seat. (Now you know the behind the scenes what occurs when you all get that precious last minute upgrade.)
In this recent scenario it's known the error occurred at the gate reader. The boarding pass failed to scan or be get scanned...whatever. Bottom line is, inaccurate information was transmitted down the line. The FA may have looked at her link to see the name of "passengers X & Y" 23A & 23B and it incorrectly wouldn't match due to the gate reading error. The passenger obviously would not know about it and to the FA's defense, neither would she.
However it's a simple fix that didn't happen for one reason or another. F/A stating, "Ma'am may please see your boarding passes?" or the passenger saying, "Excuse me, I think we have a problem, here are my boarding passes." This is the point where I feel we don't have the full story...
Once the "seat dup" issue was discovered it should have been escalated to the pilots and operations where resolution could have quickly occurred.
First off the F/As don't do head counts anymore, hasn't happened in quite a while. That information is transmitted from the gate readers. The data is sent to the F/As link devices and load planning in Chicago. Once we (the pilots) receive the final "numbers", which includes passenger counts and associated cargo weights it comes out on the printer where we input these figures in the computer for our takeoff and flight data.
When there are seat duplications the FA's can look at their link devices and see the seat numbers to direct you in the right spot. If for some reason there's an issue, they simply escalate this to the pilots. From there we contact operations and get them involved. This happens every so often and is usually associated with someone being upgraded to first class with another passenger taking the newly opened seat. (Now you know the behind the scenes what occurs when you all get that precious last minute upgrade.)
In this recent scenario it's known the error occurred at the gate reader. The boarding pass failed to scan or be get scanned...whatever. Bottom line is, inaccurate information was transmitted down the line. The FA may have looked at her link to see the name of "passengers X & Y" 23A & 23B and it incorrectly wouldn't match due to the gate reading error. The passenger obviously would not know about it and to the FA's defense, neither would she.
However it's a simple fix that didn't happen for one reason or another. F/A stating, "Ma'am may please see your boarding passes?" or the passenger saying, "Excuse me, I think we have a problem, here are my boarding passes." This is the point where I feel we don't have the full story...
Once the "seat dup" issue was discovered it should have been escalated to the pilots and operations where resolution could have quickly occurred.
-----
Instead of redacting, I added to all my posts:
Someone mentioned later on that UA no longer does head counts and the numbers are done through the scanner. So the FA didn't break any procedures.
Last edited by nutwpinut; Jul 6, 2017 at 1:14 pm