airline101

With the announcement of Boeing's dubbed (797) at the Paris Air Show what kind of routes do you think UA could utilize this on? I'm thinking this could be more of a domestic bird that could take over some of the 752/753/767 routes or maybe a few TAC routes that are lower in demand. With nothing expected to be in service until 2025 only time will tell. What are your thoughts?

ajeleonard

It's explicitly being developed as a 757 replacement, so the obvious answer would be the routes that the 757 currently flies, whether domestic or international

sbm12

Except not really.

Assuming the teasers Boeing has trickled out hold it will have a notable capacity (220-270 pax) and range (5200nm) bump versus the 752s operating TATL today.

dmurphynj

More of a 753 capacity with 763ER type range. I can dig it, as long as it's got twin aisles. Row 815 sure takes a long time to board on that 753!

seenitall

I very much doubt that it would be efficient for it to have 763ER range. The goal is to fly 4000 nm economically -- because that would cover most TATL routes. If you heavy-up the plane to carry enough fuel to fly 5500 nm, you kill the economics.

DA201

It's never most efficient to fly a plane at 100% of its range because it needs more fuel to fly farther, which means more weight, which means more fuel, etc. Every plane has a "tipping point" where a plane goes from burning less fuel per extra nmi to burning more fuel per extra nmi. A 77W has this point around 3,000 nmi and a 772 has it around 2,500 nmi. Obviously, airlines fly many routes at different ranges with these aircraft, but just something to consider.

For a plane designed to fly routes of ~4000 nmi, I think it would have a range of 5000 nmi. This will prevent it from ever making TATL fuel stops like the 752 occasionally has to do, and allow it to cover all of Europe. This allows Boeing to market not just to UA and DL for TATL routes from NYC, but also smaller airlines in Europe like A3, RO, and OK. The range would also enable DL/UA to expand into smaller cities in Japan from SEA/SFO. SA is also rumored to be replacing their fleet the 797 would be a major upgrade there as well.

MikeMpls

Actually 220-270 pax is almost exactly the capacity of a 757-300. When they are configured with premium cabins, capacity runs about 210-235 pax. If crammed full of economy pax, Boeing claimed one could carry 285 pax.

The 737-900 replaced the 757-200. The 797 will replace the 757-300 and fill the gap between the 737-900 and the 787.

Neither 757 variant has been manufactured since 2004. The newest will be 20+ years old by the time the 797 is available. Besides meeting needs for more fuel efficient aircraft, a lot of the 757's will be retiring.

Loading & unloading a full 757-300 is a bear. The 797 will be a twin-aisle aircraft and likely will re-use a lot of components from the 787 design, just as the 707/727/737/757 were evolutions of the original 707 design.

sbm12

Very little need for a replacement of that size with the limited range the 753 runs.

Barely and not in all scenarios.
The NMA will have a massively higher range than the 753; it isn't targeting 2000 mile routes the way the 753 does.
Still a pain to load/unload if only one door is available/used.

trooper

Readers of David Grahams book "Down to a Sunless Sea" will be disappointed.....

HIS "797" was a stretched 747 with a 5th engine in the tail..... now doesn't that sound much more interesting?

764toHI

I think the expectation is for existing routes to be modestly upgauged due to long-term population and GDP growth.

But the bottleneck for unloading has always been the aisle/overhead bins.

seenitall

This is an excellent point. On single aisle aircraft, almost always once the rows in front of you have collected their bags from the overhead, you can walk nonstop down the aisle to the exit door. This suggests that if there was some way for Pax to load and unload the bins more efficiently, turnaround times could be quickened. The only thing that I can think of is to limit carryons to one, and only one, item. That is, no personal item in addition to your carryon. Most of the delays I see in the aisle are because Pax are struggling to maneuver multiple items down the aisle, into the bin, etc. If they have only one item, then they have two hands to manipulate it -- not just one hand with the other dealing with their other item.

schley

I always liked the airplane to use it's 2nd door for boarding with biz/first turning left and economy turning right. It is much faster IMO and doesn't allow one person to hold up the show. I loved the 757 for this reason as a single aisle airplane.

schley

IMO people need to use the space under the seat in front of them as MANDATORY. You can't put more than your carryon in the overhead bins. Take your purse/briefcase/jacket/bag of goodies in front of you. Simple and would be less stressful for all. It is commonly accepted and people even take off jackets and lay them in the bins, which creates a 2-3 minute episode when the plane is finally full and the last guy wants to put his bag in the overhead bin and said culprit has no clue what is happening. Last guy asks whose jacket this is or asks for help because he doesnt' want to have a confrontation so he uses the flight attendant. Culprit acts like he doesn't hear or know what is going on or has earphones on, gets frustrated he is asked, begrudingly agrees when FA uses direct wording to store it in front of you or wear it. Last guy finally gets bag in overhead bin and we are 3 or more minutes right there!

Billiken

What will UA do with a 797????

Squeeze more seats into the cabin than the designers imagined.

Explorer789

This will never happen unless you want major airlines to become budget airlines. The moment a major airlines implements what you are asking, that is when I take my business elsewhere because I greatly value having two carryon items. Personally, I put my backpack under the seat and the roller into the overhead.