United favors upgrades over paid first?
Jan 17, 2018, 12:28 pm
#76
Join Date: Apr 2011
Programs: WN, AA, UA, DL
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I was cancelled again today due to "ongoing air traffic control issues in our network." And because UA is incompetent and doesn't know how to plan for IRROPS, I simply won't be taking this trip this week at all. Somehow UA thought it would be OK to rebook me for a four-hour layover and a midnight arrival at my destination. Oh, and paid F, but Y seats. No thanks.
It would be quite simple. CPU would be done away with altogether, or modified such that in all cases, F seats would be held until departure to accommodate at least some F pax during IRROPS. Another option would be a CPU downgrade list that operates in revere order/priority from the upgrade list in the event of significant IRROPS, such as this storm that just more or less knocked IAH offline for two days.
The system in place now has Y customers flying in the front, and paying F customers flying middle seats in the back of the bus as a result of IRROPS. Or not flying at all, as the case may be. I know that CPU is beloved by many here, and I have no interest in stoking anyone's ire. But I've been against CPU since the day it was announced (for a couple of different reasons - including the inevitable serious cheapening of the product once they started giving it away, besides this inability to properly accommodate F pax during IRROPS), and will remain so until UA finally comes to their senses.
The system in place now has Y customers flying in the front, and paying F customers flying middle seats in the back of the bus as a result of IRROPS. Or not flying at all, as the case may be. I know that CPU is beloved by many here, and I have no interest in stoking anyone's ire. But I've been against CPU since the day it was announced (for a couple of different reasons - including the inevitable serious cheapening of the product once they started giving it away, besides this inability to properly accommodate F pax during IRROPS), and will remain so until UA finally comes to their senses.
Jan 17, 2018, 12:44 pm
#77
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: COS
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It's really quite simple. Just have a look at the cleared upgrade list on any given flight where you've paid for F but wound up seated in 25B. CPU has absolutely everything to do with this.
Jan 17, 2018, 1:02 pm
#78
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 553
I think the issue CCIE_Flyer raises is that UA clears upgrades well ahead of departure for many flights, so that if IRROPS happen T-24 or even closer, there are few, if any F seats left on those flights. I think it has less to do with CPUs and more with when CPUs clears the upgrades. If UA waited until closer to departure time to clear upgrades and held F seats open until then, paid F passengers would have an easier time finding seats in the event of IRROPS (presumably; this is assuming that UA doesn't otherwise sell or fill the seats in another way).
In my experience with AA during the merger, they used to clear upgrades a day or two departure for me (mid-level status with AA then). As the merger progressed, they did that less frequently and would wait until day of or the gate to clear upgrades. They seemed to hold 1-2 F seats at least on the flights I was on. But that is just my experience.
Anyway, this thread is about the issues at IAH, not CPUs and upgrades. In this particular instance, alternate flights were challenging to find for me because because most flights were already pretty full, but having a slightly unconventional re-route helped me find availability and not have to wait a day or two to return.
In my experience with AA during the merger, they used to clear upgrades a day or two departure for me (mid-level status with AA then). As the merger progressed, they did that less frequently and would wait until day of or the gate to clear upgrades. They seemed to hold 1-2 F seats at least on the flights I was on. But that is just my experience.
Anyway, this thread is about the issues at IAH, not CPUs and upgrades. In this particular instance, alternate flights were challenging to find for me because because most flights were already pretty full, but having a slightly unconventional re-route helped me find availability and not have to wait a day or two to return.
Jan 17, 2018, 1:16 pm
#80
Join Date: Jan 2016
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What about those cheap F class fares / TODs? In all of my experiences, very rarely will a CPU clear last minute without gate intervention, meaning it's boarding time already. And by that time, it's fine to be clearing those seats, since it's time to go. TOD's will be the one to take away those last couple of seats within the last 4 hours leading up to the flight departure. Shouldn't your beef be with TODs being priced aggressively?
Jan 17, 2018, 2:19 pm
#81
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A good fix for UA is really simple and honestly not that far from them...
- Sell the last two F seats only to full F. Full stop. That would fix all the IRROPS and day-of issues.
- If you want to help out SDCs, then only allow check-in TODs into PN space and make the last two seats down to P but not PN.
Adjust algorithms for R and earlier CPUs accordingly to make this proposal revenue-neutral, as it would result in two gate CPUs for most flights.
- Sell the last two F seats only to full F. Full stop. That would fix all the IRROPS and day-of issues.
- If you want to help out SDCs, then only allow check-in TODs into PN space and make the last two seats down to P but not PN.
Adjust algorithms for R and earlier CPUs accordingly to make this proposal revenue-neutral, as it would result in two gate CPUs for most flights.
Jan 17, 2018, 3:09 pm
#82
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Still, it's a much better idea than yanking back CPUs due to IRROPS. (Can you imagine how many threads we'd have about "pullback shenanigans" if they did this?) I don't care how somebody got into F -- once they're there, treat them like a first-class customer. (Also, it's not uncommon for people who purchased F to pay much less for their ticket than people who purchased Y and got a "free upgrade."). Heck, I'd like it if only due to the SDC possibilities -- on my last trip, I got 3/3 CPUs and only flew up front on one leg due to SDC (outbound) and IRROPS (return).
Jan 17, 2018, 3:12 pm
#83
Join Date: Jun 2015
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For comparison, DL clears upgrades in advance as well, but never into the last 3 seats. They remain open until sold, SDC/IRROP or else upgraded into at gate.
As someone who SDCs quite frequently, I’d be good with waiting until boarding...increases my chances for the new flight and avoids the heartbreak of leaving a confirmed UG behind to get home sooner.
FWIW (and more on-topic) I just changed tomorrow’s STL-IAH-SNA to STL-ORD-SNA...mostly for time reasons but also to avoid any chances of being caught in residual operational issues.
As someone who SDCs quite frequently, I’d be good with waiting until boarding...increases my chances for the new flight and avoids the heartbreak of leaving a confirmed UG behind to get home sooner.
FWIW (and more on-topic) I just changed tomorrow’s STL-IAH-SNA to STL-ORD-SNA...mostly for time reasons but also to avoid any chances of being caught in residual operational issues.
Jan 17, 2018, 3:20 pm
#84
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Still, it's a much better idea than yanking back CPUs due to IRROPS. (Can you imagine how many threads we'd have about "pullback shenanigans" if they did this?) I don't care how somebody got into F -- once they're there, treat them like a first-class customer. (Also, it's not uncommon for people who purchased F to pay much less for their ticket than people who purchased Y and got a "free upgrade."). Heck, I'd like it if only due to the SDC possibilities -- on my last trip, I got 3/3 CPUs and only flew up front on one leg due to SDC (outbound) and IRROPS (return).
And strongly agree on looking down on upgrades and checkmarks. It's easy to think of them as "gimmes", but especially for supported upgrades I think it's important to treat them identically to paid fares. I definitely came around to this viewpoint when, as someone who pays for J and F and treats upgrades as a cost rebate when they're available, I book GPUs into R space at booking. At that point I want to be treated like I bought a P fare (e.g. positive space same-cabin rebooks in IRROPS, which UA will do on own metal), otherwise it seriously diminishes the value of the GPU.
Jan 17, 2018, 3:26 pm
#85
Join Date: Dec 2009
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If UA waited until closer to departure time to clear upgrades and held F seats open until then, paid F passengers would have an easier time finding seats in the event of IRROPS (presumably; this is assuming that UA doesn't otherwise sell or fill the seats in another way).
Actually yes, if they're still doing that. I never - ever - get TOD offers, so I guess it doesn't factor into my thinking much. But if that's still rampant, then absolutely, yes. Thank you very kindly.
Jan 17, 2018, 3:39 pm
#86
Join Date: Apr 2011
Programs: WN, AA, UA, DL
Posts: 1,313
If you're complaint is based of CPUs well in advance, well, if UA didn't do that there would thread after thread complaining about how UA doesn't clear upgrades soon enough. That would be a case of where the many outweigh the few losers.
Jan 17, 2018, 5:10 pm
#87
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If you're complaint is based of CPUs well in advance, well, if UA didn't do that there would thread after thread complaining about how UA doesn't clear upgrades soon enough. That would be a case of where the many outweigh the few losers.
Jan 18, 2018, 10:08 am
#88
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I, too, would like to see them hold back 2 F seats until the gate, whether it's restricting CPU clearance until then or restricting TODs until then. You can still sell them / CPU them at that point, and yet give folks who have paid the $$$ (or used instruments, or even who got CPUs on irrops-affected flights) a chance.
Jan 18, 2018, 10:42 am
#89
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Maybe UA could improve the balance. But my experience is that unless UA is oversold in the back and thinks they might need the F seats for overflow (and even then, many of those still clear only at the gate), they tend to leave 2 F seats. It’s certainly possible for a passenger to buy into them, of course. There’s no perfect balance though. And in IRROPS, vs. a single flight cancelled, you’ve now got how many people you neeed to accommodate? Perhaps they did. Accommodate as many F pax on new flights, but they couldn’t do it for all (in fact, I’d say that’s pretty likely).
For the record, I’ve enjoyed some CPUs over the years, but never think that should have priority over paid F. However, downgrading confirmed CPUs after the fact also isn’t a good thing. So let’s say I was upgraded, and know there is only a middle seat in the last row vs. my aisle E+ I had prior to the upgrade. Is your seat so much more important than mine, especially when his is my original flight. What about when Im traveling with my toddler, and there’s no place for us to downgrade into with seats together? What should happen then. Should I, even though the situation is no fault of my own, be kicked out to wait for the next flight with two seats together. There are lots of circumstances that need to be considered for a policy like downgrading CPUs for paid F that had to be brought on from another flight to take affect. And it’s probably way more trouble then it’s worth.
Jan 18, 2018, 11:06 am
#90
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If you look at how the airlines have managed their business over the years, it’s understandable.
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Jan 18, 2018 at 2:25 pm Reason: merging consecutive posts by same member