blueman2

Normally, I would agree. But this is UA we are talking about. What the lawyer said happened is 100% consistent with how I see UA handle these situations. i.e. poorly.

Kacee

UA hasn't even denied it. Which they are very quick to do if there's any theoretical basis for blaming the passenger.

So you're going to conclude that the accusation is false based on no evidence whatsoever of falsity, no good reason for the plaintiff to make the story up given he has a video showing an unprovoked assault which resulted in criminal charges, and in the absence of any denial by UA?

goodeats21

Exactly.

But the whole thing is a bit irrelevant. The threat about forfeiting miles and closing account has no bearing on the legal action. I just find it a revealing (though not surprising) insight into the culture at United.

Kacee

It might be admissible to establish liability for punitive damages.

LordTentacle

Any personal settlement might include an agreement that the party harmed agrees to never consume services from the party doing the harm again

The effect of the above would be to also shut down any existing FF account and render it null and void as part of the settlement

I know I have been asked to sign such things (agree to not consume in future) in the past over some disputes with professional services for projects I have managed


The above said... it just sounds like the person was dealing with a normal supervisor at UA who might not have had a clue... like all of us have faced atleast once a year every year when dealing with UA

goodeats21

Interesting. I didn't realize it could be relevant to establish liability for the base event.

Anyway, makes it even more unlikely that he is lying about it.

Kacee

You're right on that point (it's not relevant to establish liability for the underlying event). The punitives inquiry is broader; if I'm plaintiff's lawyer I'm arguing that UA's response is relevant to show malice and a conscious disregard for the passenger's rights, thus justifying punitives.

osxanalyst

very well put.

minnyfly

Here's the ridiculousness of the threat that the lawyer is claiming. If his claim of not pursuing a lawsuit for that reason is true, logic and reason tells us that he valued his ability to fly UA and his FF miles more than what he expected to gain in the lawsuit (and he's now wanting a million dollars, mind you). So that tells us that he didn't believe a lawsuit was very valuable. But now this little thing happened in April that might have changed his mind... He seems full of it, just like he appeared on the video (which again does not condone the employees' side of the activity).

A lack of denial is not an admission of guilt.

Easy logic and reason tells us his claim is suspicious.

spin88

The assaulted passenger's lawyer has been quoted as saying this was the threat that United made (press this claim we take your miles) lawyers don't lie about these things as doing so can get you removed as a witness to the case. It will be evidence to show malice by UNITED.

The video shows the assault, and UA employees collective failure to respond appropriately. It is basically an open and shut case on liability, once sufficient time has passed for any injuries to manifest themselves. If the employee had pushed him and other UA employees immediately assisted him, it would have been a harder case, but that did not happen. The lack of post assault response, and my guess (speculating, but I assume discovery will show this) a lack of post event retraining and counseling, will show UA's culpability.

Texas has a 2 year SL for assault and for PI, the lawsuit was filed about when I would have expected if settlement discussions did not resolve it quietly. My guess is any discussions were ongoing when the Doa assault happened, and Tigner's lawyers clearly then would have wanted more money, as a pattern and practice could be used to get in other evidence for punitive damages vs UA, and they would have known that the PR hit would be much worse due to Dao.

The real failure here was that UA's lawyers should have paid up ASAP, another poor decision by UA's legal/PR team.

But hey, an airline that steals little kids seats from them, bumps unaccompanied minors, beats up old men, and drags Chinese people down the aisle, bloodied, is perhaps looking to guest for the WWF as the villain. Just think of the PR value of that!

halls120

Exactly. Having this case end up in front of a jury given recent other events involving United is not going to go well for the airline. Whoever is making the settlement decisions for United bungled this one.

zeer0

I really hope United pays up in the 7 figures on this. Their employee culture is rotten to the core, whether it's Smisek or Oscar. I wouldn't be surprised to see more and more such lawsuits, especially as taking videos with phones has become increasingly popular to document such outrageous incidents. It's like the police, there's very little accountability, but finally regular citizens are taking it into their own hands to document their incompetence.

minnyfly

Lawyers don't lie?

Even if his claim is 100% true, the mistake the guy just made is that he put a value on his lawsuit before he ever filed it. If I was the UA side, I'd be jumping all over that logical error.

An honest mistake, one error by law enforcement, and one provoked employee push is infinitely less harmful than in one week stranding hundreds of thousands and then fraudulently not paying the proper compensation by lying about it. The first list happens to every massive airline at some point. The second doesn't. It's too bad the media decided not to focus on the clear crooks in the airline industry.

If a person is going to wait to settle, there's not much they can do. Also, they would have needed a crystal ball to see the Dao thing coming. Let's talk sense.

halls120

Wrong. Common sense says that if you are a senior executive of a company that is enjoying a bad publicity for breaking guitars and other similar events, when you hear about an incident recorded on video which there is no excuse for the conduct of the United employees, you tell your lawyer to settle the case quickly. Before the Dr. Dao case even happens.

That UA's PR response to the Dao incident was so poorly executed tells me that senior management probably never saw the video of the United employee shoving an elderly man to the ground, and then the indifference by many other United employees to the plight of the customer.

United is a huge operation, and there is no way that the CEO should be looped in on every mishap of an operating day. That said, the shoving of a passenger to the ground and the ensuing legal proceedings should have been briefed to Oscar well before it was shown on television.

spin88

absolutely correct. Major, successful, brands work very hard to protect the brand. That involves being proactive about issues. A well run company that relies on repeat sales to the public works very hard to protect its reputation, and that involves reaching out and resolving issues that have bad optics, particularly in the internet era, before they get traction. I have dealt with very smart people in a number of top 100 brands whose job it is to protect the brand, not by stiffing people, or threatening to retaliate against them (like UA did here) but by privately admitting fault and paying reasonable compensation. Often it involves paying more to keep the issue private. I have personally benefited from this a number of times.

United through either arrogance, or stupidity, keeps having these issues show up in the public arena. Competitors by and large have not. And when they show up in the public arena, United doubles down on a ham handed, often untrue narrative, that makes the situation worse.

I can draw a line between "united breaks guitar" to "changes you will like" to "riot in Shanghai" (if you have forgotten, its here: http://abcnews.go.com/US/united-pass...ry?id=16784289) , to failing to respond when its employee body slams a 72 year old man for asking for a legible boarding pass, to bumping an underage passenger, to being Doa'd, to failing to give a hotel room to the couple who noticed fuel pouring out of the wingtip of a 763, saving the flight (while UA's FAs ignored them), to United kills then incinerates giant rabbit, to the current "united steals seat from 26 mo old kid" events. Others can add to the list....

The common theme in these, and other media stories is United's arrogance and stupidity in handling difficult situations. It is a broken culture, starting at the top.