eng3

These weekly threads should just get merged into the DYKWIA thread

iahphx

This social media/airline stuff is out-of-hand. When more than a million people fly everyday, something unpleasant is going to happen to more than a few of them -- especially when they do things that, um, break the rules. Like try to bring a freakin' huge piece of luggage with them. The airline is not being mean, or racist, to apply its rules. It's just running a business.

I'm wondering where all this ends. Just today, I was reading a story about how awful UA was, and how they can't do "anything" right. I'm a lifetime 1K, so I know a little about UA: the service isn't usually spectacular, but it's usually fine. Decent, I would say. Yet this social media nonsense makes it seem like they're the worst company in the world. It's bizarre.

DenverBrian

For someone who later laments critical thinking skills being lacking in an entire generation, your hyperbole in this statement doesn't stand up to critical scrutiny. @:-)

And there are principles of good service, hospitality, and understanding roles that we try to use to live together amicably on the planet. @:-)

Um, no, they wouldn't have. Believe it or not, most of us go about our lives not much caring if someone gets a perk or a bit of special attention now and then without <shudder> us getting the exact same thing.

It seems to me there are plenty of "wrongs" to go 'round on all sides; but the critical thing here to me is: Passengers don't go to "passenger school" to learn how to handle all situations when boarding an aircraft. UA GA's do go to school (known as training) to learn how to handle all situations when people are boarding the aircraft. Just as in any hospitality business, the onus is on the service provider, not the service receiver, to smooth over any bumps or problems or - yes - DYKWIAs. And especially given the Dao incident, you would think that UA and all airlines would be really, really emphasizing that part of an employee's role.

The binary thinking here is really odd to me - everyone seems to want the GA to be 100% "right" or the passenger to be 100% "right." I submit that both parties made mistakes, but for any hospitality business model to be viable long-term, the ultimate responsibility must rest on the service provider. In this case, the GA completely forgot her training on how to say "no" and still provide a good experience.

I think it is sad that critical thinking is lost on everyone thanks to social media.

benitovacation

Agreed.

Though bizarre or not, UA needs to put a stop on constant and continuous social media negativity before material impact on its brand and bottom line from business standpoint.

FlyngSvyr

I am not saying that either was 100% right or wrong, but after doing extensive reading/research on this incident, it is clear to me that this particular passenger misrepresented the facts of the situation in her social media rant. It is also clear to me that the GA worked out a compromise whereby the pax was able to take her tennis rackets on board, while still checking the oversized luggage under the plane. The GA provided a workable solution, the passenger just wasn't happy with it.

Lets be realistic, when this GA was dealing with a DKWYIA pax that wanted to get her way no matter what, the service provider is in a no win situation because the pax only wants to hear "YES" and any other answer is going to be unacceptable.

kettle1

No, these almost twice weekly threads (on UA) should be merged in Houston "We Have a Problem! thread". UA GA's are not cops. They are representing UA. They need TRAINING! Management in the "Windy City" needs to hire an outside firm to get moral up and learn how to talk to paying passengers. Those paying passengers pay your salary.

Almost every one of these things reported in the news recently about UA could have been handled differently. With proper training and more TA, GA or FA "think outside the box" do what is right training and being able to do it. I blame Management at UA. Let the front-line employees do their job and give them the power to do so. I know many people that work for UA and other carriers. Moral at UA is poor at this time, at it shows. There are many, many people that work for UA that are Excellent and love their jobs. At least it looks like it to me. There are also some very, very bad apples.

Good luck!

DenverBrian

But that is the world of service. It's what those of us who are in the service business sign up for. DYKWIAs have existed probably since some rich guy took Joseph and Mary's room at the inn. If people aren't cut out to be exposed to these situations day after day, and handle them well, they shouldn't be in the business. And, optically, UA and other airlines are gaining the reputation that they have an inordinate number of FAs and GAs and reservations agents who shouldn't be in the jobs they're in.

iahphx

It's not so easy to "train" gate agents and such to do their jobs. Let's face it: these aren't the highest paying jobs in the world (although they're much higher paying than they were a few years ago, before the USA airlines became super profitable). You cannot expect every gate agent to act like the concierge of a 5-star hotel. All you can expect is them to follow the airline rules, act reasonably, and try to be friendly. The law of numbers tells us that, given human nature and the unpredictability of travel, a few people are going to have "incidents" with gate agents every week when you have a sea of humanity passing through. It's social media that distorts the prevalence and magnitude of such incidents.

FlyngSvyr

I am really curious what your idea of an equitable outcome would have been in this case. You clearly think the GA handled it incorrectly. IMHO she did the best she could in this situation & worked out a compromise. She had no idea that the petulant passenger was go to throw an internet hissy fit and misrepresent the situation.

As long as the GA was being professional in demeanor, fair & uniform in the implementation of the rules that THEY are required to operate under she was doing her job. Yes common sense comes into play from time to time, but the size of the luggage in question was no where near reasonable. The witness to the event has stated that the United staff was being nothing but professional in this situation. If you haven't read it already, look at his tweets and see his accounting of the incident.

https://twitter.com/BrianTRusso/with_replies

And, I will have to say in advance. If your idea of an equitable outcome was for the passenger to be allowed to board the plane with her tennis case packed exactly as shown in the picture where it is fully loaded, then we are just going to have to agree to disagree.

John Aldeborgh

I read threads like this and wonder why anyone would want to work for or run an airline. Everyone thinks their special, rules are for the other guys. I want a super cheap ticket, an upgrade to first, to board first, free food & drinks and the ability to bring any size bag on the plane. Of course if anyone even looks at me slightly sideways, then they should be fired along with the CEO and the entire BOD.

I'm sorry but UA is miles ahead of any China based airline, and I've flown most of them, two of them within the last few days.

Someone said it earlier in this thread. Given the number of passengers traveling on UA every single day, along with the cut throat cost competition, it's amazing how well UA performs. These are good people, trying their best. Honestly, to the folks who disagree, go find another airline and make their lives miserable.

DenverBrian

My comments are more generally related to the overall perception of airline staff that's been prevalent for decades now. I can't make a conclusion on this specific incident because I wasn't there to witness it myself, but I've seen enough instances of poorly trained GAs and FAs to know that there is an overall trend towards airline staff thinking they're the police instead of the service provider.

Your continued reference to rules vs. principles gives me a sense that you believe everyone should be treated equally. I think everyone should be treated fairly. There's a big difference.

And I'm not ready to take the word of a single Twitter poster who looks like Elvis.

ws8n

Just wondering grand slam players like Nadal or Federer. How do they fly with their racquets?
Wonder if she raised the race card cuz she has seen non-Asian players getting free-pass with their tennis bags, while she got the short end of the stick .

FlyngSvyr

Sometimes fair is equal & some times it is not.

Some of us are fortunate to have fees waived when we call up to change tickets, SDC outside the rules, etc. I recognize it for what it is. The employee is cutting me a break by bending a rule. I don't consider it being treated fairly, I consider it being granted a favor. I am also willing to accept the answer of NO and won't get upset if it doesn't work out for me. Would a general member or a kettle get the same slack? Probably not, so that is where we are not equal.

As far as Elvis goes, he is the only neutral party (IMHO) speaking up. At least he (or someone else) recognized what was going on & took a picture of the loaded bag in case this incident went viral. Those 2 pieces of evidence tend to make me think the initial rant by the tennis pro was pretty distorted. Just my opinion, and I am starting to realize that there are many that still come away with a different one (even when presented with these facts).

I do find it telling that no major US news outlets have ran with this story. I think they probably vetted the details and realized that it wouldn't hold water in the end as a UA outrage story. I may be wrong & we might see it picked up after the weekend, but I think the editors realized there was nothing to see here.

To be fair, I did not get the sense that she was raising the race card. She was just upset that she did not get the outcome she wanted. It is her followers and the commentators on her FB page & in the twitterverse that "went there".

spin88

There is a photo of the bag IN THE SIZER. Why in gods name would you want to look at a close up picture of the bag (which makes it look big) standing up? I could take a picture of my standard roll-away that would make it look HUGE! But unless you goal is to try to confuse people, and make UA look better, the picture in the sizer is what matters.

This bag was slightly longer, and slightly narrower than the typical roll-away. It was not a hug gym bag, a hiking back back, or a bigger 10x16-17x24 bag (which is allowed by SWA, Alaska/VX, F9, Sun Country) all of which I think most/all agents would call out.

And by the way, I want to stress that OALs, including airlines that are all Boeing (SWA, Alaska) allow larger roll-away bags. There is no issue fitting them in the overheads, and this players bag would have fit easily.

I see no indication that the bag in the sizer is anything but her bag in the sizer. It is not after she "unpacked" the bag. But I agree with you generally, I would have said 2" more than the sizer, but given that the bottom on the bag is very thin, this will fit into an overhead bin exactly like a regular carry on roll-away would, due to the curvature of the bins i.e. take up no more space.

This is a good example where you either believe (1) rules must be followed to the letter, even if enforcing the rules provides no actual benefit to anyone, or (2) you ask the purpose of the rule is met by a hard and fast following of the rule.

I would expect most GAs to reject a 10x17x24 roll-away bag (I have one, bought to use on VX/AS flights, but would not try to use on UA/DL, I would just check it, or bring my typical 22" bag) or huge duffle bags, but view it as very very bad customer service to demand a flyer (particularly a 1K) gate check fragile sports equipment that is basically of legal size, and would fit normally in the overhead bins.

DenverBrian

I don't. They're kind of busy with Trump, the British elections, Comey, Trump...