sbm12

The tone of your initial post - claiming (twice!) to have been "bumped" out of line - was much closer to accusatory/complaining than it was to expressing inquiry or confusion.
@:-)

runner450

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MY-OTHER-BROTHER-"TED"

I agree and the accusations posted were borderline "Fake News"!

Seems as though nearly everyone thinks there is some sort of conspiracy and/or collusion going on when they are in a First-Place-Show position, at the gate, and finish last!

SEA_

I do apologize if my post was taken that way, certainly not my intention at all, so I'll gladly own it and stand corrected.

I'll be sure to choose my words more carefully next time, thanks again to all.

LarryJ

It's fairly complicated. If you are interested, the rules are in 14 CFR 117.

Deadheading time does not qualify as required rest time and it may, or may not, count as duty time depending on what else happens in the duty period.

We are only booked into F on very long flights or on medium-length flights when we will operate (fly) another leg(s) in the same flight duty period (FDP) without an intervening rest period.

For example, the Caribbean islands typically have more service on the weekends than during the workweek. For this reason, we have to get extra crews into position to fly the extra flights on the weekends as many of the flights are too long to do as a round trip. i.e. EWR-AUA-EWR. In that case you'd DH pilots EWR-AUA who would then turn around and fly the airplane back to EWR. They'd be booked into F, if available at time of booking, because of the length of the flight and that they will be flying the return leg in the same FDP. If a crew were to fly EWR-AUA then DH back, in the same FDP, they would not be booked into F because they'd be going into rest when they reached EWR instead of flying another leg(s). They would be on the upgrade list but they would be below all revenue passengers.

As to duty period (FDP in 14 CFR 117), the crew that DH'd then flew would be on-duty for the DH. The crew that flew first then DH'd would not be on-duty on the DH but they would also not be in rest, either. Their rest would not start until they were released at the end of the DH and they would have to have the required rest before they could start a new flight duty period.


No, on a flight that long the crew would have to go into rest after the DH before they could operate another flight as the FDP would exceed max limits. DH isn't rest.

N104UA

I believe they can, if they commute for work (i.e. live in Tampa but based in ORD) the commuting is technically personal travel, plus may wear their uniforms as (I believe) they have to be in uniform to jump seat.

Allan38103

Incorrect. Off duty crews MAY fly in uniform.

5khours

Just my $0.02 and I realize that there may be mitigating circumstances, but if I were running an airline (or any business) I couldn't imagine putting an employee ahead of a customer. From the perspective of a passenger I don't really mind, but from the perspective of a business owner I would be furious if my employees had the mentality that they thought it was OK for employees to sit in first class.

757FO

Correct

757FO

I suppose it's a balancing act, between keeping both camps happy.

MSPeconomist

I suspect that deadheading FAs are not entitled to FC space, although pilots might be. I don't know what the UA contracts say about this. Nevertheless, it can create a perception among customers that something inappropriate has happened and on that basis, it's something that IMO should be avoided.

MSPeconomist

Thank you. This is interesting and sounds very sensible. It also suggests that it's not very common in general that crew are entitled to premium cabin seating when deadheading, but it might be quite common on certain routes or at certain times.

N104UA

If UA has to deadhead a pilot or FA somewhere to work another flight bumping one pax is a small ask vs canceling a flight with 50-374 people on it.

I also wonder if UA is being overly sensitive with the Dao situation, if Y is full and F has seats it might be easier to put them in F if there is a seat available vs having "we were traveling for our honeymoon and UA upgraded me but my wife wasn't upgraded and after they refused to upgrade her they made her sit next to a pilot the whole flight in MY seat"

UA says they won't book onto an oversold flight within 1 hour of departure, if Y is 100% (not oversold) and F has 2 seats they are not breaking the rule

diburning

The trial may be over, but the internet lynch mob, fueled by the unwashed masses, scumbag travel deal bloggers, and even FT itself (seeing as how this thread is linked to the front page) is still out to ruin United. Every article, every news story, every mention, whether United was right or wrong, comes with a clickbait title and a slanted story that makes it sound like United is always in the wrong. They're making it sound like the sky is falling on United's end and that couldn't be any further from the truth.

wolf72

As a golden rule, FA's and Tech Crew's should not be bumping business class passengers out of their seats which are confirmed.

Airliners should keep 4 seats vacant for all flights until 2 hours before a flight and then release them to the public and last minute travellers instead of bumping passengers off.