Refund for paid F sitting in E?
May 4, 2017, 3:53 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Crystal City, VA
Programs: United Mileage Plus 1K 2 MM, HHonors Diamond, Hyatt Platinum
Posts: 2,627
Refund for paid F sitting in E?
Here's the scenario:
purchased F, ABQ-XXX-IAD. Before leaving for the airport, got text saying ABQ-XXX was delayed (late arriving a/c). Instead of calling, just went to the airport early to investigate alternatives.
Long story short, GA re-books me ABQ-YYY-IAD, but only ABQ-YYY in F; YYY-IAD (the much longer leg) is in E, and a middle seat to boot. "No open seats in F" she tells me.
She tells me I'm #1 on the wait-list for YYY-IAD (yup, verified with UA app), and if I don't get to sit in F YYY-IAD I should call UA and request a refund...
Land YYY; F is checked in full per the app. Go to Club to ask about whom to call for refund, but agent at Club looks at rez, tells me "you paid for first", and hands me a BP for 3B (yay!).
So it didn't happen, but 1) would one be entitled to a "refund"? and 2), whom does one call? The 1K desk, or the refund desk?
purchased F, ABQ-XXX-IAD. Before leaving for the airport, got text saying ABQ-XXX was delayed (late arriving a/c). Instead of calling, just went to the airport early to investigate alternatives.
Long story short, GA re-books me ABQ-YYY-IAD, but only ABQ-YYY in F; YYY-IAD (the much longer leg) is in E, and a middle seat to boot. "No open seats in F" she tells me.
She tells me I'm #1 on the wait-list for YYY-IAD (yup, verified with UA app), and if I don't get to sit in F YYY-IAD I should call UA and request a refund...
Land YYY; F is checked in full per the app. Go to Club to ask about whom to call for refund, but agent at Club looks at rez, tells me "you paid for first", and hands me a BP for 3B (yay!).
So it didn't happen, but 1) would one be entitled to a "refund"? and 2), whom does one call? The 1K desk, or the refund desk?
May 4, 2017, 3:57 pm
#2
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May 4, 2017, 4:08 pm
#3
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: LHR (sometimes CLE, SFO, BOS, LAX, SEA)
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 5,893
In the general case on United, roll a d20 and consult the below table for Irrops When Paid First And No First Seats Open.
Roll 2-7: Sorry, no refund is owed. You paid for First, but due to an unfortunate problem your flight did not operate. You were offered, and accepted, a flight in Economy. Because you accepted that offer we don't owe you any refund. You could have chosen to ask for a flight in First leaving at some future time (perhaps days later, fwiw) and UA would have honored that request. But because you didn't hold out for First you voluntarily accepted an earlier flight in a lower class of service and are owed nothing. Etc. etc. etc.
Roll 8-13: Yep, you flew in a lower class of service than you paid for. You're owed a refund of the fare difference between what you paid and what you got. Hmm, looks like you paid $500 for an advance-purchase First fare and you were booked in a last-minute Economy fare which would have cost $490 if you had booked it on the date of travel at the cheapest applicable fare with available inventory at the time it was offered to you. Here's a $10 refund -- don't spend it all in one place.
Roll 14-19: Yep, you got a downgrade due to irrops. Sorry about that, here's a randomly generated but reasonable looking amount of compensation.
Roll 20: Oh wow, we're really sorry for this delay and downgrade. You paid $500? Here is a customer-service gesture voucher containing downgrade compensation we set in our GG OVS DOWNGRADE policy -- looks like that's a $300 voucher for your stage length. We're also going to mail you a check for $400 cash, which is the fare difference between your $500 fare and the cheapest $100 economy fare you could have bought if you had bought the flight you actually took in advance, at the original time of purchase. Apologies again for the inconvenience, please choose us again when you fly.
Roll 1: Oh, you were rebooked on a later flight in First? That was a mistake. They shouldn't have done that. There isn't a seat for you on this flight in First. Yes, there are open seats in economy, but please just stand to the side until we're done boarding. OK, we're done boarding. No, you're not getting on the plane. No, you aren't owed any compensation. Go away. Maybe we'll book you onto a later flight. Go away.
(Note -- if you roll a 1, roll again for the DOT complaint. Anything 5 or higher will generate a $300 e-cert along with a blanket disclaimer that you were not, despite the evidence, IDB'd.) (I have seen the documentation and this actually happened on a flight on 6 Jan 2017 btw.)
Roll 2-7: Sorry, no refund is owed. You paid for First, but due to an unfortunate problem your flight did not operate. You were offered, and accepted, a flight in Economy. Because you accepted that offer we don't owe you any refund. You could have chosen to ask for a flight in First leaving at some future time (perhaps days later, fwiw) and UA would have honored that request. But because you didn't hold out for First you voluntarily accepted an earlier flight in a lower class of service and are owed nothing. Etc. etc. etc.
Roll 8-13: Yep, you flew in a lower class of service than you paid for. You're owed a refund of the fare difference between what you paid and what you got. Hmm, looks like you paid $500 for an advance-purchase First fare and you were booked in a last-minute Economy fare which would have cost $490 if you had booked it on the date of travel at the cheapest applicable fare with available inventory at the time it was offered to you. Here's a $10 refund -- don't spend it all in one place.
Roll 14-19: Yep, you got a downgrade due to irrops. Sorry about that, here's a randomly generated but reasonable looking amount of compensation.
Roll 20: Oh wow, we're really sorry for this delay and downgrade. You paid $500? Here is a customer-service gesture voucher containing downgrade compensation we set in our GG OVS DOWNGRADE policy -- looks like that's a $300 voucher for your stage length. We're also going to mail you a check for $400 cash, which is the fare difference between your $500 fare and the cheapest $100 economy fare you could have bought if you had bought the flight you actually took in advance, at the original time of purchase. Apologies again for the inconvenience, please choose us again when you fly.
Roll 1: Oh, you were rebooked on a later flight in First? That was a mistake. They shouldn't have done that. There isn't a seat for you on this flight in First. Yes, there are open seats in economy, but please just stand to the side until we're done boarding. OK, we're done boarding. No, you're not getting on the plane. No, you aren't owed any compensation. Go away. Maybe we'll book you onto a later flight. Go away.
(Note -- if you roll a 1, roll again for the DOT complaint. Anything 5 or higher will generate a $300 e-cert along with a blanket disclaimer that you were not, despite the evidence, IDB'd.) (I have seen the documentation and this actually happened on a flight on 6 Jan 2017 btw.)
May 4, 2017, 5:19 pm
#5
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: LAX
Programs: UA:1k; MR: PLT; Hilton: Gold
Posts: 1,324
Had this happen flying AUS-LAX and was rebooked AUS-SFO-LAX except AUS-SFO could only be accommodated in Y.
Emailed 1K voice. Was mailed a Visa pre-paid card for the difference (close enough to cash for me that I wasn't about to complain further).
Emailed 1K voice. Was mailed a Visa pre-paid card for the difference (close enough to cash for me that I wasn't about to complain further).
May 4, 2017, 7:10 pm
#7
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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Programs: DL PM, UA Gold, WN, Global Entry; +others wherever miles/points are found
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Hilarious, and depressingly true. I always get very nervous during paid F IRROPS..
In the general case on United, roll a d20 and consult the below table for Irrops When Paid First And No First Seats Open.
Roll 2-7: Sorry, no refund is owed. You paid for First, but due to an unfortunate problem your flight did not operate. You were offered, and accepted, a flight in Economy. Because you accepted that offer we don't owe you any refund. You could have chosen to ask for a flight in First leaving at some future time (perhaps days later, fwiw) and UA would have honored that request. But because you didn't hold out for First you voluntarily accepted an earlier flight in a lower class of service and are owed nothing. Etc. etc. etc.
Roll 8-13: Yep, you flew in a lower class of service than you paid for. You're owed a refund of the fare difference between what you paid and what you got. Hmm, looks like you paid $500 for an advance-purchase First fare and you were booked in a last-minute Economy fare which would have cost $490 if you had booked it on the date of travel at the cheapest applicable fare with available inventory at the time it was offered to you. Here's a $10 refund -- don't spend it all in one place.
Roll 14-19: Yep, you got a downgrade due to irrops. Sorry about that, here's a randomly generated but reasonable looking amount of compensation.
Roll 20: Oh wow, we're really sorry for this delay and downgrade. You paid $500? Here is a customer-service gesture voucher containing downgrade compensation we set in our GG OVS DOWNGRADE policy -- looks like that's a $300 voucher for your stage length. We're also going to mail you a check for $400 cash, which is the fare difference between your $500 fare and the cheapest $100 economy fare you could have bought if you had bought the flight you actually took in advance, at the original time of purchase. Apologies again for the inconvenience, please choose us again when you fly.
Roll 1: Oh, you were rebooked on a later flight in First? That was a mistake. They shouldn't have done that. There isn't a seat for you on this flight in First. Yes, there are open seats in economy, but please just stand to the side until we're done boarding. OK, we're done boarding. No, you're not getting on the plane. No, you aren't owed any compensation. Go away. Maybe we'll book you onto a later flight. Go away.
(Note -- if you roll a 1, roll again for the DOT complaint. Anything 5 or higher will generate a $300 e-cert along with a blanket disclaimer that you were not, despite the evidence, IDB'd.) (I have seen the documentation and this actually happened on a flight on 6 Jan 2017 btw.)
Roll 2-7: Sorry, no refund is owed. You paid for First, but due to an unfortunate problem your flight did not operate. You were offered, and accepted, a flight in Economy. Because you accepted that offer we don't owe you any refund. You could have chosen to ask for a flight in First leaving at some future time (perhaps days later, fwiw) and UA would have honored that request. But because you didn't hold out for First you voluntarily accepted an earlier flight in a lower class of service and are owed nothing. Etc. etc. etc.
Roll 8-13: Yep, you flew in a lower class of service than you paid for. You're owed a refund of the fare difference between what you paid and what you got. Hmm, looks like you paid $500 for an advance-purchase First fare and you were booked in a last-minute Economy fare which would have cost $490 if you had booked it on the date of travel at the cheapest applicable fare with available inventory at the time it was offered to you. Here's a $10 refund -- don't spend it all in one place.
Roll 14-19: Yep, you got a downgrade due to irrops. Sorry about that, here's a randomly generated but reasonable looking amount of compensation.
Roll 20: Oh wow, we're really sorry for this delay and downgrade. You paid $500? Here is a customer-service gesture voucher containing downgrade compensation we set in our GG OVS DOWNGRADE policy -- looks like that's a $300 voucher for your stage length. We're also going to mail you a check for $400 cash, which is the fare difference between your $500 fare and the cheapest $100 economy fare you could have bought if you had bought the flight you actually took in advance, at the original time of purchase. Apologies again for the inconvenience, please choose us again when you fly.
Roll 1: Oh, you were rebooked on a later flight in First? That was a mistake. They shouldn't have done that. There isn't a seat for you on this flight in First. Yes, there are open seats in economy, but please just stand to the side until we're done boarding. OK, we're done boarding. No, you're not getting on the plane. No, you aren't owed any compensation. Go away. Maybe we'll book you onto a later flight. Go away.
(Note -- if you roll a 1, roll again for the DOT complaint. Anything 5 or higher will generate a $300 e-cert along with a blanket disclaimer that you were not, despite the evidence, IDB'd.) (I have seen the documentation and this actually happened on a flight on 6 Jan 2017 btw.)
May 5, 2017, 1:42 am
#8
Join Date: Dec 2011
Programs: UA 1K, Marriott Plat, Avis First, Hertz PC
Posts: 575
Roll 8-13: Yep, you flew in a lower class of service than you paid for. You're owed a refund of the fare difference between what you paid and what you got. Hmm, looks like you paid $500 for an advance-purchase First fare and you were booked in a last-minute Economy fare which would have cost $490 if you had booked it on the date of travel at the cheapest applicable fare with available inventory at the time it was offered to you. Here's a $10 refund -- don't spend it all in one place.
There used to be another scenario too, which I haven't seen in a while (hoping it is gone).
"I looked at your airfare, and it is an economy ticket with the right to sit in first. Since your purchased fare was a V fare, and you we rebooked you onto a Y ticket, no refund is due."
or the newer variation which happened to me once:
"Although you were rebooked into the economy cabin because no seats in first were available, you were upgraded at the gate into the first class cabin. Because it was an upgrade you will not receive bonus PQM. Because you flew in first, you are not owed a refund."
Last edited by johnden; May 5, 2017 at 1:50 am
May 5, 2017, 4:59 am
#9
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: IAD/DCA/BWI
Programs: Hyatt Globalist (2020:Exp), United Gold
Posts: 1,525
Requested ETC instead of refund
Something similar happened to me. In Nov, I was booked in F on IAD-SFO-HNL (with lay-flat on both flights). IAD-SFO was delayed >4h due to MX, so SFO-HNL was in 20A on a 739 (exit row non-reclining with thin cushion).
This was my last trip of the year, was already credited Z (including the flight in E+) and would be at 113kPQM and 12070PQD when I got home. I didn't want that reduced by refund (and lose 1K), so I requested a voucher for a future flight instead. I got a $400 ETC (on this 574PQD segment). Perhaps they are more generous with ETC versus a refund?
I also got a $200 ETC on the first flight for the 4hr MX delay.
This was my last trip of the year, was already credited Z (including the flight in E+) and would be at 113kPQM and 12070PQD when I got home. I didn't want that reduced by refund (and lose 1K), so I requested a voucher for a future flight instead. I got a $400 ETC (on this 574PQD segment). Perhaps they are more generous with ETC versus a refund?
I also got a $200 ETC on the first flight for the 4hr MX delay.
Last edited by wh6cto; May 5, 2017 at 1:15 pm Reason: grammar fixed
May 5, 2017, 8:25 am
#10
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 553
You may also find this thread helpful:
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unit...ation-etc.html
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unit...ation-etc.html
May 5, 2017, 10:55 am
#11
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Posts: 66,850
You may also find this thread helpful:
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unit...ation-etc.html
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unit...ation-etc.html
May 5, 2017, 11:47 am
#12
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 812
In the general case on United, roll a d20 and consult the below table for Irrops When Paid First And No First Seats Open.
Roll 2-7: Sorry, no refund is owed. You paid for First, but due to an unfortunate problem your flight did not operate. You were offered, and accepted, a flight in Economy. Because you accepted that offer we don't owe you any refund. You could have chosen to ask for a flight in First leaving at some future time (perhaps days later, fwiw) and UA would have honored that request. But because you didn't hold out for First you voluntarily accepted an earlier flight in a lower class of service and are owed nothing. Etc. etc. etc.
Roll 8-13: Yep, you flew in a lower class of service than you paid for. You're owed a refund of the fare difference between what you paid and what you got. Hmm, looks like you paid $500 for an advance-purchase First fare and you were booked in a last-minute Economy fare which would have cost $490 if you had booked it on the date of travel at the cheapest applicable fare with available inventory at the time it was offered to you. Here's a $10 refund -- don't spend it all in one place.
Roll 14-19: Yep, you got a downgrade due to irrops. Sorry about that, here's a randomly generated but reasonable looking amount of compensation.
Roll 20: Oh wow, we're really sorry for this delay and downgrade. You paid $500? Here is a customer-service gesture voucher containing downgrade compensation we set in our GG OVS DOWNGRADE policy -- looks like that's a $300 voucher for your stage length. We're also going to mail you a check for $400 cash, which is the fare difference between your $500 fare and the cheapest $100 economy fare you could have bought if you had bought the flight you actually took in advance, at the original time of purchase. Apologies again for the inconvenience, please choose us again when you fly.
Roll 1: Oh, you were rebooked on a later flight in First? That was a mistake. They shouldn't have done that. There isn't a seat for you on this flight in First. Yes, there are open seats in economy, but please just stand to the side until we're done boarding. OK, we're done boarding. No, you're not getting on the plane. No, you aren't owed any compensation. Go away. Maybe we'll book you onto a later flight. Go away.
(Note -- if you roll a 1, roll again for the DOT complaint. Anything 5 or higher will generate a $300 e-cert along with a blanket disclaimer that you were not, despite the evidence, IDB'd.) (I have seen the documentation and this actually happened on a flight on 6 Jan 2017 btw.)
Roll 2-7: Sorry, no refund is owed. You paid for First, but due to an unfortunate problem your flight did not operate. You were offered, and accepted, a flight in Economy. Because you accepted that offer we don't owe you any refund. You could have chosen to ask for a flight in First leaving at some future time (perhaps days later, fwiw) and UA would have honored that request. But because you didn't hold out for First you voluntarily accepted an earlier flight in a lower class of service and are owed nothing. Etc. etc. etc.
Roll 8-13: Yep, you flew in a lower class of service than you paid for. You're owed a refund of the fare difference between what you paid and what you got. Hmm, looks like you paid $500 for an advance-purchase First fare and you were booked in a last-minute Economy fare which would have cost $490 if you had booked it on the date of travel at the cheapest applicable fare with available inventory at the time it was offered to you. Here's a $10 refund -- don't spend it all in one place.
Roll 14-19: Yep, you got a downgrade due to irrops. Sorry about that, here's a randomly generated but reasonable looking amount of compensation.
Roll 20: Oh wow, we're really sorry for this delay and downgrade. You paid $500? Here is a customer-service gesture voucher containing downgrade compensation we set in our GG OVS DOWNGRADE policy -- looks like that's a $300 voucher for your stage length. We're also going to mail you a check for $400 cash, which is the fare difference between your $500 fare and the cheapest $100 economy fare you could have bought if you had bought the flight you actually took in advance, at the original time of purchase. Apologies again for the inconvenience, please choose us again when you fly.
Roll 1: Oh, you were rebooked on a later flight in First? That was a mistake. They shouldn't have done that. There isn't a seat for you on this flight in First. Yes, there are open seats in economy, but please just stand to the side until we're done boarding. OK, we're done boarding. No, you're not getting on the plane. No, you aren't owed any compensation. Go away. Maybe we'll book you onto a later flight. Go away.
(Note -- if you roll a 1, roll again for the DOT complaint. Anything 5 or higher will generate a $300 e-cert along with a blanket disclaimer that you were not, despite the evidence, IDB'd.) (I have seen the documentation and this actually happened on a flight on 6 Jan 2017 btw.)
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Jul 8, 2017, 1:35 am
#13
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: SNA
Programs: UA LT Plat, 2.5mm, Hilton LTD, SPG LT Gold, Marriott Gold, Hertz Whatever
Posts: 161
Am i entitled to a refund?
Today we had a weather delay at LGA where inbound was late but then there was a mechanical that ultimately delayed the arrival at IAH. I missed my connection so I had to get a later flight to SNA. This was a purchased first class ticket where I got FC from LGA to IAH but had to go with coach from IAH to SNA. What can I expect from UA? I should have had a FC seat and extra PQM miles from IAH to SNA. What should I expect from UA for the portion that was now in EC? Should I get a refund for IAH to SNA based on fare difference and should i get the appropriate PGMs based on the first class ticket?
Jul 8, 2017, 1:49 am
#14
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: SNA
Programs: UA LT Plat, 2.5mm, Hilton LTD, SPG LT Gold, Marriott Gold, Hertz Whatever
Posts: 161
Just to add something. I called 1k and they put me on the new flight and I got a confirmed exit row seat in E+. I called back as I realised I hadn't requested to be on the wait list for first so they added that. I then couldn't find my being listed anywhere and then figured out I had to check in for the new flight and then I showed up as #2 on the upgrade list with a flight that was then checked in full. However, when I was in the air I tried to purchase a FC ticket for the same flight and it was available but I wasn't given that seat that had disappeard by the time I landed.
Jul 8, 2017, 1:22 pm
#15
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: MSP
Programs: DL PM, UA Gold, WN, Global Entry; +others wherever miles/points are found
Posts: 14,410
Today we had a weather delay at LGA where inbound was late but then there was a mechanical that ultimately delayed the arrival at IAH. I missed my connection so I had to get a later flight to SNA. This was a purchased first class ticket where I got FC from LGA to IAH but had to go with coach from IAH to SNA. What can I expect from UA? I should have had a FC seat and extra PQM miles from IAH to SNA. What should I expect from UA for the portion that was now in EC? Should I get a refund for IAH to SNA based on fare difference and should i get the appropriate PGMs based on the first class ticket?
You should absolutely be able to request and receive Original Routing Credit (ORC) for the itinerary as booked (in First). I would not do this at the same time as requesting a refund, although there have been occasional reports of people managing both.
Lastly, it sounds like you were not well taken care of if you didn't get an available seat in First on your new flight. If you feel like you got taken advantage of, rather than grateful to have gotten home, let CS know and there's a chance you'll get some miles.