Boutique Air now bookable on United.com
#16
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: LHR (sometimes CLE, SFO, BOS, LAX, SEA)
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 5,889
I presume that the SLC-VEL-DEN is a similar setup. Notice that Boutique Air uses different flight numbers for SLC-VEL and VEL-DEN, even thought it's clearly the same aircraft. And yes, there is TSA at VEL, you can even leave a compliment. Even if there wasn't TSA, Boutique Air would still make you get a separate BP for the other flight number.
Could AA do this with e.g. ORD-SUX-DFW? Is there a similar route where UA won hub-to-X and X-to-hub EAS routes and could publish the hub-X-hub flight at a $200 discount versus the nonstop?
#17
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Colorado
Programs: UA Gold (.85 MM), HH Diamond, SPG Platinum (LT Gold), Hertz PC, National EE
Posts: 5,580
Anyhow, since you are in the Springs, PM me sometime and we can meet for a beer.
COSPILOT
#18
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Oakland CA
Programs: DL Gold, AS MVPG, Globalist
Posts: 1,007
I'd do it again, although not if I'm in a hurry. It's a novel experience but it takes a lot of extra time.
#19
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: LHR (sometimes CLE, SFO, BOS, LAX, SEA)
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 5,889
Per https://www.transportation.gov/polic...al-air-service , carriers are paid on a "per flight completed" basis -- in principle the DOT pays the same subsidy amount for OAK-MCE flight as long as the flight operated, no matter whether the flight went out booked 1/8 or 8/8.
*However*, there is a $200-per-passenger subsidy cap which applies to communities close to a large or medium hub airport -- so if VEL or MCE are within 210 miles of the nearest large or medium hub, then the DOT will not pay more than $200 in subsidies per pax.
So I don't see how EAS carriers are incentivized to carry extra pax *unless* the subsidies they are getting are so high that they're hitting the $200 per pax cap and need more pax to avoid maxing out the subsidy payment.
#20
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: LIS/ATL/other
Programs: UA 1K, Avis PC, Hertz PC, Sixt Plat, Marriott Gold, HH Silver
Posts: 1,983
OK I read the underlying rules a little more carefully and I'm not sure this characterization is exactly right.
Per https://www.transportation.gov/polic...al-air-service , carriers are paid on a "per flight completed" basis -- in principle the DOT pays the same subsidy amount for OAK-MCE flight as long as the flight operated, no matter whether the flight went out booked 1/8 or 8/8.
*However*, there is a $200-per-passenger subsidy cap which applies to communities close to a large or medium hub airport -- so if VEL or MCE are within 210 miles of the nearest large or medium hub, then the DOT will not pay more than $200 in subsidies per pax.
So I don't see how EAS carriers are incentivized to carry extra pax *unless* the subsidies they are getting are so high that they're hitting the $200 per pax cap and need more pax to avoid maxing out the subsidy payment.
Per https://www.transportation.gov/polic...al-air-service , carriers are paid on a "per flight completed" basis -- in principle the DOT pays the same subsidy amount for OAK-MCE flight as long as the flight operated, no matter whether the flight went out booked 1/8 or 8/8.
*However*, there is a $200-per-passenger subsidy cap which applies to communities close to a large or medium hub airport -- so if VEL or MCE are within 210 miles of the nearest large or medium hub, then the DOT will not pay more than $200 in subsidies per pax.
So I don't see how EAS carriers are incentivized to carry extra pax *unless* the subsidies they are getting are so high that they're hitting the $200 per pax cap and need more pax to avoid maxing out the subsidy payment.
Boutique Air operates 2,446 flights a year to/from VEL (24 weekly round trips multiplied by 2 directions multiplied by 52 weeks multiplied by a 98% completion factor), using a 9-pax King Air 350, to get a maximum subsidy of $3,324,848. To reach that subsidy they have to board a minimum of 16,625 ($3,324,848/$200) pax to/from VEL. So they need to fill an average of 6.8 (16,625/2,446) seats of that 9-seat airplane on every single flight. And that is measured each week. Any week they don't average 6.8 pax per flight they lose subsidy. So there is a very strong incentive to fill seats, and the $49 and $69 fares are very much a part of it. $49+$69 is $118 for SLC-VEL-DEN which is quite competitive with other airlines, especially when you consider the free checked baggage. Without the connecting pax they may not reach that average of 6.8.
My ATL-MSL-BNA flight was a good example. Without the connecting pax, they would have gotten 2 pax who were truly MSL pax. With the connecting pax, they got 14.
#21
Join Date: Dec 2006
Programs: United 1k aa exec plat
Posts: 1,837
This is kind of genius. Has no one done this before (use an EAS city as a "focus city" to sell subsidized travel between hubs)?
Could AA do this with e.g. ORD-SUX-DFW? Is there a similar route where UA won hub-to-X and X-to-hub EAS routes and could publish the hub-X-hub flight at a $200 discount versus the nonstop?
Could AA do this with e.g. ORD-SUX-DFW? Is there a similar route where UA won hub-to-X and X-to-hub EAS routes and could publish the hub-X-hub flight at a $200 discount versus the nonstop?
e.g.
if you try to book silver city to abq ,get message ua doesnt fly to these cities can you go close by?
if you say yes,then it gives option of silver city to santa fe (via guess where?)
abq with boutique air!
#22
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 21,182
Flights on Boutique Air (4B) can now be credited to Mileage Plus: https://www.united.com/ual/en/us/fly...tique-air.html
Furthermore, UA is actually codesharing with 4B on several routes; not only some of the old Great Lakes routes out of Denver, and the ATL-MSL-BNA route mentioned earlier in the thread, but also MSP-TVF (Thief River Falls, MN) and PDX-PDT (Pendleton, OR): https://www.routesonline.com/news/38...late-may-2018/
Given the number of non-earning fare classes listed, I'd be curious to hear about peoples' experience booking the codeshare flights.
Press Release: https://www.boutiqueair.com/news/271
Furthermore, UA is actually codesharing with 4B on several routes; not only some of the old Great Lakes routes out of Denver, and the ATL-MSL-BNA route mentioned earlier in the thread, but also MSP-TVF (Thief River Falls, MN) and PDX-PDT (Pendleton, OR): https://www.routesonline.com/news/38...late-may-2018/
Given the number of non-earning fare classes listed, I'd be curious to hear about peoples' experience booking the codeshare flights.
Press Release: https://www.boutiqueair.com/news/271
#23
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: New York, NY
Programs: UA, AA, DL, Hertz, Avis, National, Hyatt, Hilton, SPG, Marriott
Posts: 9,425
I think the PC-12 is a great airplane and PT6A a fantastic motor, but I'm a little less than sanguine about hopping in a single engine aircraft for a flight over the Rockies. Not exactly forgiving terrain if the proverbial you-know-what hits the fan.
With MP earning, some of the other 4B routes are a now bit more enticing!
With MP earning, some of the other 4B routes are a now bit more enticing!
#24
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: 4me
Posts: 11,957
Think of it as an adventure!
#25
Join Date: Jul 2016
Programs: UA Gold
Posts: 107
Large single engine Turboprops in the late 90's were always on my wish list to own. Few were capable of hauling my entire family, however the Cessna Caravan could, but isn't very fast. The Pilatus on the other hand could haul the family in a pressurized environment at far greater speed. But didn't matter as I could never afford one. Then one day a friend of mine purchased a new PC-12, back in 99 if memory serves, and my desire to have one became a lifelong promise to myself that I would someday find the money to purchase one. Sadly I haven't won the lottery yet...
Anyhow, since you are in the Springs, PM me sometime and we can meet for a beer.
COSPILOT
Anyhow, since you are in the Springs, PM me sometime and we can meet for a beer.
COSPILOT
I got a quick tour of a PC12 while waiting at an FBO in college years ago. Really slick plane, has had a soft spot in my heart ever since. Though those TBMs are pretty nice, that's probably what I'd pick up if I won the lottery. Plus a Cub, for the low and slow $100 burger trip.
#26
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,934
Routes available on the UA codeshares:
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38...late-may-2018/
Atlanta – Muscle Shoals
Denver – Alamosa
Denver – Cortez
Denver – Dodge City
Denver – McCook
Minneapolist/St. Paul – Thief River Falls
Nashville – Muscle Shoals
Portland OR – Pendleton
Fares are far better on the underlying 4B codes when I checked this morning.
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38...late-may-2018/
Atlanta – Muscle Shoals
Denver – Alamosa
Denver – Cortez
Denver – Dodge City
Denver – McCook
Minneapolist/St. Paul – Thief River Falls
Nashville – Muscle Shoals
Portland OR – Pendleton
Fares are far better on the underlying 4B codes when I checked this morning.
#27
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 21,182
#28
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: BNE/OOL temporarily-permanently at CAK/PIT
Programs: UA*1K & UA Club, National Ex. Elite, Hertz Pres. Circ., Amex Plat., CLEAR
Posts: 1,703
I just booked into TVF, which isnt much farther to Grafton, ND than GFK is. Id resigned myself to flying Delta to get there or taking a long drive from Fargo.
Fares seem to be priced similarly to FAR minus a few dollars. Buying to MSP and then a separate 4B segment would probably be cheaper for many markets, eg, ORD.
Fares seem to be priced similarly to FAR minus a few dollars. Buying to MSP and then a separate 4B segment would probably be cheaper for many markets, eg, ORD.
#29
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: BNE/OOL temporarily-permanently at CAK/PIT
Programs: UA*1K & UA Club, National Ex. Elite, Hertz Pres. Circ., Amex Plat., CLEAR
Posts: 1,703
This is kind of genius. Has no one done this before (use an EAS city as a "focus city" to sell subsidized travel between hubs)?
Could AA do this with e.g. ORD-SUX-DFW? Is there a similar route where UA won hub-to-X and X-to-hub EAS routes and could publish the hub-X-hub flight at a $200 discount versus the nonstop?
Could AA do this with e.g. ORD-SUX-DFW? Is there a similar route where UA won hub-to-X and X-to-hub EAS routes and could publish the hub-X-hub flight at a $200 discount versus the nonstop?